Tuesday, September 18, 2007

Catcher in the Rye - Post Two







So Holden is in New York...

In this post, I am asking you to do two things:

1 - Comment on themes or larger ideas that you notice in the text. To be able to do so, as readers, you must begin to think what is J.D. Salinger telling us about the world. (This may be different than what Holden tells us about the world)

What larger ideas do you see in the text? What message(s) are you receiving as a reader? How do symbols and tone help highlight our understanding of theme?



2 - I want you to read the very short story "Story of an Hour" by Kate Chopin. Continuing our discussion of point of view and character shifts, how does the author play with our perception in this text? What are you learning about reading? What connections can you make to other texts (short stories, Catcher, summer reading, etc.) What is this text telling us about the larger world?

Good luck!!!!

55 comments:

Chloe C 2 said...

I believe that Salinger is telling us that the world is phony. He gives us that impression through Holden’s point of view. As many people have said before, Holden has no right to accuse others of being phony as he is phony himself. Salinger has everyone in the world phony, including the man who calls everyone phony. Salinger reinforces his statement by having everyone have the trait. Perhaps he sees himself as phony also. ‘It is human nature to be fake’ Salinger seems to say. There is no stopping it. It’s quite sad, really. That statement gives no hope for the future.
The old couple mentioned in the story, Mr. and Mrs. Mallard, have been together for a long time. Mr. Mallard dies and Mrs. Mallard is one of the first to know. Though she did mourn his death, (she wept) she realized she didn’t like being married to him. Mrs. Mallard was trying to calm herself down when she realized she was free. She was so happy with joy that her weak heart couldn’t take it. She died. I find it very ironic that the moment she is free from her husband’s clutches, she dies. A message?

Lynn T. 4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ngoc D. 4 said...

The most apparent theme so far is like what Chloe said, the phoniness of the world. Salinger is labeling everyone is a phony, and Holden is no exception. Maybe he is the phoniness of them all. After all, he is “the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life”. He even admits that he is a phony, indirectly. However, I have no grudge against Holden for criticizing everyone else, because he never directly said that he is NOT a phony, nor did he imply that idea anywhere. Another theme that is apparent so far is alienation. Holden seems to be excluding himself from his surroundings. Like in the beginning of the book, he “was standing why up on Thomsen Hill” while everyone else was at the big game. It shows that he is not in sync with the rest of the world. Tone helps highlight our understanding of theme since it shows that the narrator really means and feels. The narrator carries the voice of the author in which through the narrator’s voice, they author can convey a message to the readers.
In the short story “Story of an Hour”, the author changes our perception because our view on Louise changes as the story goes on. At first, I thought that she was really sad about her husband’s “death”. However, as she goes on, she seems happy that her husband died. She cried “free, free, free!”. It shows that she really resents her husband, whom she sad loved—“sometimes”. I read the story about three times, and I can feel the sadness in her words. People would think that she’s heartless for celebrating her husband’s “death” but it sounds like they didn’t have that great of a relationship. However, this is a 3rd person limited, so this might be biased like The Catcher in the Rye. There were not many descriptions of the husband, so we don’t know who what he’s actually like. I guess what Kate Chopin is trying to convey through this story is that women are oppressed by men and that women are truly free when they are not around anymore, both "body and soul".

Hillary D 2 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Katherine Z 4 said...

Like what Chloe, Lynn and Ngoc said, one of the main themes in this book is about people being phony. Salinger creates a world for Holden to live in where everyone one is phony, even Holden himself. While Holden was on the train he met Ernest’s mom, rather than introducing as himself, Holden decides to use a fake name: Rudolf Schmidt. Holden starts off by creating stories about Ernest, talks about what a big shot Ernest was in school, even though he knew Ernest was nothing, he made it sound like he was the greatest guy in the school.

Another theme that is apparent in this story is alienation and loneliness. Like what Ngoc said Holden’s behavior with others shows that he’s excluding himself away from everyone, society. Holden keeps on mentioning how everyone is a phony, that’s why he doesn’t hang out with them, but deep inside I think he’s actually carving for friendship and companionship. When he first arrived in New York City, Holden immediately seeks companionship, someone to talk to, even though it was in the middle of the night. He desperately carves for interactions among his friends, he wanted to call D.B, Phoebe, Jane, and Sally, however each time he makes up excuses for not calling. Holden even calls this Faith person, whom he never met before; this shows that he’s terribly alone; why else would he want to get together with a total stranger?

In the short story “The Story of an Hour” I think one of the themes is loneliness, like in “The Catcher in The Rye.” When Mrs. Mallard first heard about her husbands death she immediately started to cry, however afterward she went to her room, she started to relax, and starts to think. She realizes that she’s finally “free from her husband”, after all these years of “imprisonment” from her husband, she finally has her freedom back. Even though she had loved her husband, she had not been truly content with her life. She had been lonely, being together with a husband who had not loved her. She said that “she was drinking in a very elixir of life through that open window,” it makes me think that she was happy that her husband had die, she’s not going to dye over him, rather she’s getting new energy, life to live. However, the irony in this story is that just when she’s at her happiest state, in the door comes her “undead” husband; she suddenly dies of “heart disease- of the joy that kills.” Did she actually die when she was at her happiest? Or did she actually die when she saw her husband came in the door. And not believing that her “freedom is not gone” choose to end it?

Hillary D 2 said...

J.D. Salinger thinks the whole world is phony. Chloe said, ‘It is human nature to be fake,’ Salinger seems to say. Why would he make Holden’s character keep calling everyone phony when he already knows it? I think in writing this book, he’s letting people know they are phonies because he believes they aren’t aware.
Like Ngoc, I also assumed the wife loved her husband a lot. I think she cried for two reasons. One, normally when you hear someone close to you died, you automatically feel depressed and only think about the death. Two, she cried because of the fact that he was her husband and she somewhat loved him. I think he husband loved her way more than she ever loved him. Around that time, based on the story, men were thought of as superior to women, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they loved them less. The news of her husband’s death gave her two emotions. First it was grief and very quickly, it turned into relief. I think Chopin might be telling up that people change their minds and opinions too fast; that their emotions aren’t as deep as they should be. This could relate to Salinger’s idea of phony.
“Some one was opening the front door with a latchkey. It was Brently Mallard who entered, a little travel-stained, composedly carrying his grip-sack and umbrella.” I am so confused!!! Wasn’t Brently’s name on the “killed” list? Why is he still alive…? I think there was a mix up in the death list.Perhaps, instead of killing off the husband and letting the wife believe her husband was dead first was proving her point. She may be saying people assume too fast and don't stick around to know the truth.

Trang T 2 said...

For me, I think the author doesn’t simply think the world is phony at all. What I think is for him, the world is something that unfair and yet it’s a little phony. Holden doesn’t have any outstanding ability like his brothers and his sister. He thinks he is the only dump one in the family. Salinger creates Holden Caulfield with incidents of depression, nervous breakdown, relationship and sexual exploration. On the other hand, Holden thinks to him the world is surrounded by phonies. I found out there is an interesting point in the story. The way he communicates with peoples reveals his character. Holden’s inability to communicate with others is represented symbolically by uncompleted phone calls and undelivered messages throughout the story. And by misunderstanding others’ feeling, he thinks they’re phonies and stupid.
In ‘’Story of an hour’’, first of all, I was wondering what the title was about. Then I started to read along. At the first paragraph, I thought Mrs. Mallard was an old lady, because she had a heart problem. Then she heard news from Mr. Richard her husband died in train accident. She went to her room all along. Then she started sobbing. It shows me that she loves her husband and she was shocked after receiving the message. ‘’she was young, with a fair, calm face…’’ it’s even more interesting to me. What I was thinking before was off track. It wasn’t what I expected in the story. She found her own freedom, a joy of being free. This was really confusing me. Did she love him or what? I guess this was an arranged marriage. And how come the title is ‘’story of an hour’’?

Consuelo T 2 said...

I agree with everyone when they say that the author is trying to tell us about phoniness. Through Holden he is showing us that basically everyone is a phony. I agree with Chloe when she writes “it is human nature to be fake”. It shows in the book how Holden says everyone is fake and he himself is as fake as all of them. I also agree with Ngoc, how the story deals with loneliness. Holden is so eager to talk to someone. He’s so desperate to have human interaction he debates whether or not to call his fiends and family. He even calls Faith a girl he barely knows. He’s willing to interact with anyone.I found “the story of an hour” to be very interesting. Mrs. Mallard finds out that her husband has died. At first she seems sad, which is normal when someone close to you dies. Then she feels some sort of liberation. She whispers “free free free!” I assume she didn’t like her husband much, but had loved him “sometimes”. Her husband must have not been so great. It mentions “There would be no powerful will bending hers in that blind persistence….”. Could this been her talking about her husband? Maybe he was controlling? I thought it was ironic how she dies at the end with her weak heart, when she finds her husband to be alive after all. After all that time she thought about the rest of her life as being free. I think the message is that life is short and to start being happy before it’s too late. To answer Trang’s question, I think the story is called “the one hour story” because she was free for one hour.

Lynn T. 4 said...

I agree with Chloe that Salinger thinks the world is phony. Holden is so passionate about the idea of the world being phony that Salinger must have agreed in order to write about it. I think Salinger thinks that every person is phony, and it would just be phony if you pretended you were not.
In the story by Kate Chopin, the character realizes that she may not have loved her husband. In the very beginning it says, “Knowing that Mrs. Mallard was afflicted with a heart trouble”. What kind of heart problems did she have? Was it a broken heart or a serious condition? While she was crying over her husbands’s "death", she felt something else. She felt a relief. She was free and liberated for that hour. When she was alive, she looked out side she was beginning to notice everything that was there. In the story when she describes her husband, it says “the face that had never looked save with love upon her, fixed and gray and dead.” I think the quote said that her husband never loved her, but did she love him back? I think the message is either not all good things last forever, or to just enjoy what you have now before it is too late.

Jeniffer M 2 said...

I thought Salinger was attempting to show all the falsity in the people that Holden spoke to and show how important friends are. It seems he was either lonely or wanted to be alone. The only people he didn't feel that way with aren't there anymore. For example, Allie has died, and you know Holden was close to him because of the baseball glove. He can not call Pheobe because he'd have to speak to his parents and he's trying to avoid that. He can't speak to Jane because he doesn't know where to find her. He can't and probably won't speak to D.B. because D.B. has gone into show biz in Hollywood and has "joined the phonies" so Holden is pretty lonely. On a smaller note, I've noticed something that is kind of mind-boggling to me because it's been in my face the whole time. I'm aware of Holden's infamous red hat that he must adjust in some form to fit the style he likes, but as Mr. Walsh said, Holden has gray hair, and the rest of his siblings have red hair. Coincidence?

As for the short story, I think it is ironic as many of you stated, that she dies while thinking that her husband's death might be something positive. But I wonder if Mr. Mallard also felt a sigh of relief when his wife died?

The way Chopin wrote this, I thought that Mrs. Mallard would practically die of heart ache or shock because in the beginning, it said she had a weak heart, but then it turns out that she dies from shock due to the fact that she is going to be free from this man who she "loved". So, I started thinking that she would be a little, fragile old lady, who has been in love with her husband for so long and has had such a long love, and I end up thinking she's such a heartless woman to be rejoicing for her husband's death. I guess she didn't love him aas much as I thought.

Mr. Walsh said...

Hey everyone!

Good job responding to each other. Consuelo, nice job responding to Trang's question.

The Story of Hour is an interesting piece in regards to theme. Think of it in terms of what we talked about with Girl, especially the idea of male/female.

Katherine, I liked what you said about Holden using a fake name.

You are picking up many good ideas in Catcher. Think about symbols and how they influence the theme. Period 2 has already begun their walk through symbolize - this could help you. Jen, we'll talk about the hat/hair if someone doesn't respond.

Here's what Jen said, in case you missed it: "I'm aware of Holden's infamous red hat that he must adjust in some form to fit the style he likes, but as Mr. Walsh said, Holden has gray hair, and the rest of his siblings have red hair. Coincidence?" What do you think?

Best of luck!!!

Mr. Walsh said...

HEY - FOR those looking for some new light on these pieces, remember we talked about names as symbolic - What does "mallard" mean? What do you notice about her name in the story?

General advice (this will be brought up in class): When creating a theme statement, try to think beyond simply the personal life lesson (i.e. always be kind to strangers) and begin to move to the more universal (i.e. in the case of The Last Judgment, Man is only able to judge Man).

With Story of the Hour, think about what universally is this piece saying about issues of marriage, feminity, relationships, etc.

Kellie L 4 said...

When I read “Story of an Hour”, the old lady said that she loved her husband, but was relieved that he was dead. I felt like she was telling us that he was the next best thing to a husband that she could find. This lead to phoniness because when you love someone, you shouldn’t feel relieved when they die. I also noticed the same theme in “The Catcher in the Rye.” When Holden is in New York, he goes to a nightclub and meets three women. He keeps telling us how ignorant and foolish they are, but he still shows interest in them. This reminded me of the old lady in “Story of an Hour.” They both seem like they are expecting too much of life and they spent time with people that they really did not care about. The main theme that I found was phoniness, like most of you said. But, I think that Holden and the old lady are acting phony because of something that they want, but know they cannot have. I think that Salinger is trying to tell us that there is no such thing as true happiness because Holden hangs out with people that he does not like for fun, can’t call his house, is alone in a hotel, and him being underage makes everything worse. Does anyone else see a connection between Holden and the old lady?

Savannah W 2 said...

Kellie, I definitely see a connection! I think Holden and this women have allot in common. She has this person that she married and your supposed to love them until death do them part, she did wait until death, but I'm pretty sure your not supposed to be happy about your spouse dieing. I don't know if I have the concept confused, because maybe she is happy he died because he was suffering living with heart disease so maybe she thinks it's better for him to be in a better place, but if she's being compared to Holden she is definitely phony. They both want to be with people that they can relate to, but they can't seem to find it. Holden thinks everybody is phony(well most people besides Jane and his sister, and Allie) because nobody is quite like him, maybe the women thought her husband was the one but after marrying him realized he wasn't because he wasn't just like her, or she didn't have her "ideal" marriage. Just like Holden who doesn't see the world as his hid "ideal" world. So these two definitely have a connection, they think alike.

Jillann C 2 said...

Up until what we’ve read as of now in The Catcher in the Rye, a rising theme that I keep seeing come up are the expectations that the parents have of their children. In Holden’s case, one of the expectations that his father has for Holden is to become more mature and to not act like a 12-year-old. I would assume that this expectation was a rather important one since it was brought up in the passage that we had to read for our latest open response. From the last paragraph in this particular passage, I got the impression that Holden is the outcast in his family particularly in the last sentence which said, “People never notice anything.” Incase anyone’s confused; this is when Holden is frustrated that people cannot see that Holden is trying to be mature. By getting the impression that Holden is the outcast in the family, I connected it with Jen’s comment of Holden getting the red hat and wearing it. By wearing the red hat, Holden may not feel as much of the runt in his family since all of his siblings have red hair while he has grey hair which brings me to the next theme that I’ve been noticing, I’ve been noticing the theme of Holden having grey hair compared to his siblings having red hair. Salinger may be trying to show the reader that in every family some one at some point for some reason has the tendency to feel left out.
After reading, Story of an Hour, I think the author, Chopin is trying to tell the reader that people’s actions don’t just affect themselves, but also have a lasting affect on the people who surround them. In reading its self, I’m learning that the reader has to put themselves in the position of the audience that the book is directed to and the reader can’t just read the book from their person perspective. During the reading, I made the connection of Holden and Mrs. Mallard by them both wanting to break free and shout out what the feel inside like Mrs. Mallard did when saying, “Free”. I got the same feeling with Holden in which he wants to break free and tell everyone what he is feeling inside whether it’s about how he misses Allie so much or that he feels like an outcast in his family because he isn’t smart like his siblings and doesn’t have red hair.

P.S. I’m sorry I wrote so much Mr. Walsh, I know you said to only write a bulky paragraph but as you can see, I had a lot to say…

Mr. Walsh said...

Don't apologize, Jillann! Nice job connecting the stories thematically.

Aaron G 2 said...

I very much agree with jillian on the theme being the expectation of parents of thier children. But i also think thier is a much broader theme. I think the theme is alienation and how to deal with it to become part of the world. J.D. Salinger, to me, thinks of the world as easy if you no people and are popular. If you sre not life will be tough and left out.
In the short story many people talked about her husband dying and her being relieved. This is a terriblr way to feel but it is the truth. I think thier are other ways to approach this situation, like breaking up with him. This story kind of reminds me of girl since it is about a lady. Yet this whole story is in third person and girl is in first but this lets us get a different view of things.

Aaron G 2 said...

I very much agree with jillian on the theme being the expectation of parents of thier children. But i also think thier is a much broader theme. I think the theme is alienation and how to deal with it to become part of the world. J.D. Salinger, to me, thinks of the world as easy if you no people and are popular. If you sre not life will be tough and left out.
In the short story many people talked about her husband dying and her being relieved. This is a terriblr way to feel but it is the truth. I think thier are other ways to approach this situation, like breaking up with him. This story kind of reminds me of girl since it is about a lady. Yet this whole story is in third person and girl is in first but this lets us get a different view of things.

Marissa G 4 said...

The theme of the book so far like most others have already said is that children can not live up to there parents expectations. As w e read further I think there is going to be a bigger picture to why Holden acts the way he does. There are many symbols to show things throughout the novel, we discussed them in class today. His brother Allie, to me is a very bid symbol because think that is part of who Holden is and maybe why he sort of alienates himself. Allie seems to have been a very big part in Holden life before he died. To me Holden seems to remember the little things like he very set on the fact that Jane kept her kings in the back row when they used to play checkers. By the time we finish this novel there will be a better understanding of Holden and a large theme to the book.

The point of view of this story is third person we are hearing it from an anonymous source. This story to me means that you shouldn’t believe something unless you see it for yourself like they announced his death over a telegram and not in person so they believed that he was dead. Then his wife got so upset that when she learned that he not really dead she herself died for heart failure which we learned she had at the beginning of the story. This is a strange story to prove the point of don’t believe everything you here.

Jessica F 2 said...

In Catcher In The Rye the author is so far showing us that life and everything to do with it is phony. Salinger is telling us that people are phony too. A lot of things in this book are used as symbols. For example, Holden is always changing schools, which means he is moving a good amount but it’s only temporary until he goes to the next school. In the story, Holden keeps mentioning the ducks and asking everyone “where do the ducks at the lake go when it’s winter time?” Also the red hat that Holden wears is a symbol. Whenever he doesn’t feel like dealing with something or is embarrassed or nervous, he puts the hat to the front. When he’s comfortable doing what he is doing then he puts it the
way he likes it, to the back. Another example of a symbol is the names used in this book.
The kid Ackley has a lot of acne and acne sounds like Ackley. Getting back to what this all has to do with theme, I think the theme does have a big part about how different people can act. Although, I do also agree with Jillann and Aaron about the theme having to do with the expectations of parents of their children.

When I read “Story of an Hour”, it reminded me of My Sister’s Keeper. There was a lot of suspense right in this little story. Just like in My Sister’s Keeper. Something huge would happen and then something else that was big would happen because of the first huge thing and then later you would find out that the huge one was a mistake and didn’t happen. It keeps you interested. It kept me really interested because you want to know what happens next.

Ashley N. 4 said...

In the short story, “Story of an Hour”, Mrs. Mallard states that, “And yet she had loved him—sometimes. Often she had not.” At first it isn’t apparent as to why she didn’t love him as often as a wife should love her husband, but, after re-reading it a few times, it was clear to me that Mrs. Mallard wanted to do more things.
Like, first of all, her chair was always facing a window, which meant that she would look out of it often, and see other people go about their daily tasks. And then Chopin describes Mrs. Mallard’s hands, which are “as powerless as her two white slender hands,” which meant that Mrs. Mallard did not get to do stuff very often, that’s why her hands were white, slender and powerless as opposed to being tan and callused.
And, I also think that her death wasn’t as unpredictable as it seemed in the beginning. She kept mentioning her body and soul, meaning that her body and her emotions were strongly connected, and with her weak heart and her husband’s sudden appearance caused her to die.
Mrs. Mallard and Holden have one thing in common I noticed. They both have sub-feelings. Like, Mrs. Mallard had the feeling of freedom and happiness, which came out of no where, and Holden has a feeling of isolation, but at the same time desperate for communication. But the difference is, Mrs. Mallard came to terms with her feelings, Holden didn’t, that’s why in the chapter where Ernie was playing the piano he was like, “I don’t know what I mean by that, but I mean it.”
The larger ideas I see in Catcher in the Rye is that Holden uses isolation as a defense mechanism, but he still wants to communicate with people. He turns down people’s invitations, ex. Lillian invited him to sit with Commander Blup or something, but he turned it down, but he always wants someone to talk to. Like, the way he’s always asking the taxi drivers if they want to go drink with him, even though he couldn’t stand some of them.

Victoria P. 4 said...

I think that J.D Salinger is trying to show more than what Holden says. Holden has a very one point view on the world. He seems to have that negative attitude at all times, unless he is trying to have someone stop talking to him, or just to please the other person. I think the whole point of this book is to show us what is real and what is not. Throughout the story there is the word “phony” used numerous times. Holden throws the word around a lot even though he seems to be just as phony as all the other people he has called that name. I think the big link between “ The Story of an Hour” and "The catcher in the Rye" is both sadness and then fakeness. In “The Story of an Hour” the wife is very depressed in the beginning but in the end she finally realizes that she will have a good life and is kind of happy that her husband has died so that she can finally be free. I think this shows fakeness or makes her appear to be a “phony” person, because she acts like she is really devastated that her husband has just died even though she is actually quite happy. Both stories are examples of how the real world is. Things are not always what they seem and what you expect. The wife in “The Story of an Hour” expects to have her life ruined when her husband dies, but she quickly learns that life isn’t what you always expect and there are many different twists and turns you will probably never understand. J.D Salinger makes this apparent in his novel by showing how Holden goes from school to school, not thinking anything about his life or his career. He also displays this in many other ways like sharing with us how Allie died, and how Holden isn’t truly over the whole situation. I feel that Holden is holding in a lot of his anger from many of the years past, and that is one of the main reasons why he is so negative all the time.

Jillian D 2 said...

I agree with Chloe, that the theme is that the world is phony. Holden however, thinks he is the true, non-phony, realistic person. Even though we know he is definitely not. But he has this thing, that when he talks about Jane, that seems to be his most real time. Like we see another side of him, which is very good.

In the short story, I also agree with Chloe. The speaker or in this case the third person seemed to give me the vibe that the couple had a relationship that they just stayed together for everyone around them and that they didn’t care about each other as much as a married couple did. It is sad to see someone die and you hear true life stories about people that once they “soul” mate dies then they do also, and that’s what happened, she was finally free and then she ended up dying in the end.

Mr. Walsh said...

First, please remember to take the time to proofread your comments in a Word document.

Next, some of you are drawing connections between Mrs. Mallard and Holden as phony. You may wish to explore why each character hides their feelings. I think they come from a very different place. I'm a little shocked that Mrs. Mallard is being denigrated as a fake.

Good job noticing how in the third person narrative, the narrator can mislead us. Many of you are noticing that in the 1st person, we get a biased viewpoint, and need to look deeper into the characters.

Ashley, nice job noticing how Mrs. Mallard's physical appearance influences our perception of the character.

People still haven't commented on the idea of feminity and marriage in Story of an Hour.

You are noticing some great ideas all around - though those of you who mention parental expectations - I am wondering what evidence do you see in Holden's life? Remember, you should back up your theme with textual evidence.

Belinda L 4 said...

In the novel, I think that Salinger and Holden have different views of the world. I agree with almost everyone that have comment before me that Holden has sort of a phonyness feeling for the world and that everyone in the world will only care about them selves. Holden seems to be feeling lonely and isolated in many parts of the story. But on the other hand, I think that Salinger has a more of a the world is not that bad but people can be very selfish at times. At other times they are pretty carring. I get this feeling through Holden when he starts to act differently towards Ackley and other times when he talks about how no one ever cares.

However i agree with Ngoc about the story "Story of an Hour." Louise is first depicted as heart broken about the news but later we find that she is happy about her husband's death giving me a feeling that she doesnt have a good relationship with him. she even said herself that she loved him--sometimes. Im not sure why she had a heart attack after thoug. Since the story said it was because of joy, i think that it was the joy of seeing her husband still live. But as chloe said, it might be because of how happy she is to know that she is free.

Elaine T 4 said...

The most apparent themes so far would be the phoniness of the world and alienation of oneself like many have said before me. Salinger has portrayed everyone as a phony, someone who acts one way but is really another way and has Holden hating everyone who is fake. However, Holden is also a phony himself because he constantly lies and portrays himself as other people.

Moreover the theme of alienation has come about through out much of the chapters that we've read. Holden isolates himself from his friends and society because he says everyone is a phony. I think Holden is isolating himself from his peers because he's scared to be seperated from them eventually so he doesn't bother to form bonds and relationships fearing he'd have to say goodbye again since he's always moving around. I also think his isolationg may also have to deal with Allie, his dead brother, too. I think Holden was very close to his brother and Allie was the first person that Holden ever let into his life but when Allie left Holden, Holden felt alone and unloved and was so hurt by the sudden abandonment that he started to isolate himself from everyone so he'd never be hurt by others again. However, Holden may be isolating himself, but he also craves friendship and a companion. When Holden first arrived in New York, he wanted desperately to call someone to get in touch with, to say he was in New York. Holden wants to be cared about and wants to be missed and this is one of the reasons how I know Holden wants a friend. Moreover, Holden calls a stranger whom he's never met before at a pretty late hour and this shows exactly how lonely Holden really is.

Also in the short story "The Story of an Hour" by Kate Choplin, the theme of loneliness was seen throughout many parts of the story. When Mrs. Mallad found out about her husband's death, she at first was sad and taken aback from the tragic news. However, once she was in her room and was able to peacefully think, she began to realize she's finally "free" from her husband. By this experssion, the readers are able to tell that she was unhappy before even when her husband was alive. She was lonely and wasn't content with someone who didn't really love her by her side. Moreover when Mrs. Mallard whispered "Free! Body and soul free!" you could tell she was happy her husband had died because she no longer had to live for him or the two of them. She could live for herself, and do anything and everything she wanted to do.

Jonathan C. 4 said...

Phoniness is definatly a majoy theme in the story because it appears so oftenly within the text. The actions of people and their words and thoughts all play into their facades. There are no exceptions to the phonies in his world, which includes himself. Holden may be the phoniest one because of all the things he does. He lies about things even when he does not need to, or about things that he does not need to. For example, he sees a classmate's mother and lies about everything. He lies about having a tumor, his name, her son's action within the school and everything else. Holden acts differently when he is with different people and lies so well it has almost become first nature to him. In the short story, "Story of an Hour," pohoniness seems to be another theme of the story. Josephine acts as if she is sad that her husband has died, yet she whispers to herself "Free! Body and soul free!" Either she is happy that her husband has just died or she has some issues that she needs to work out. She seems to be someone that Holden would characterize as "phony" because of the way she acts and pretends that she is sad when she really looks happy. J.D. Salinger may be trying to tell us that the world is not as real as it seems because of the way everyone else acts. For example, presidents often act highly with a lot of class only to get votes. When they are actually elected they do not fufil everything thay they had promised to do. Also, in buisnesses, someone may pretend to be your friend and then at the last moment, backstab you to get a higher ranking in life. Most people in life only care about the money that they make and their social status.

Thanh N. 4 said...

As many may have said before, Salinger is probably trying to get the people to see how “phony” people are. He puts Holden as the main character in which is one way he lets people see that in the world there are fake people and Holden’s hypocrisy to show how people are fake themselves. Maybe the author is trying to tell the reader that there aren’t any good people and life, and if you do, it’s rare. With symbolism and tone, it helps you realize the theme. With symbolism you can pick any object or person that would represent a bigger idea. The bigger idea would lead to the theme of the story to tell us what the point of the story is. Also, the character’s tone would show the emotion of how they’re feeling. For example, when you yell, “Be quiet!” it’s saying that you’re either mad or annoyed. The tone distinguishes what type of person you are when you communicate with people.

In the beginning of the story, “The Story of an Hour”, by Kate Chopin, Mrs. Mallard is full of sadness. When she kept looking out of the window, things started to change. In the end, she was full of happiness and she couldn’t stop it. While she was crying her eyes out, she must have missed him a lot, but it must have changed when she realizes something when she was in the room alone. Maybe her marriage wasn’t all that great to begin with and she only cried because her only husband died. When she looked out the window, something must have been going on to make her happy about his death because people don’t cry and then laugh like a lunatic after. Mrs. Mallard probably realized that her husband is now dead and she could do whatever she wants. There could be a chance that her husband never treated her well, when she loved him a lot. Now that she’s free, she can’t help but to celebrate it.

Mr. Walsh said...

Jonathan made the connection to social status.

What about social status in The Catcher in the Rye?

Instead of reiterating some points, we can switch topics.

Nikita R 2 said...

I agree with everyone when they say that Salinger is telling us that the world is phony. I agree with Jillian when she said that Holden himself doesn't think he is phony; that is the real person in the world. In the short story is seemed as though the woman’s happiness got the best of her and in the end ended up killing her. Even though the couple had been married for a long time Mrs. Mallard cried at first, but then when she realized that she was free she suddenly became happier. Like Chloe mentioned, the happier she got the weaker her heart became and then she died.

casey w. 4 said...

I see that many people have been agreeing with the “phony” theme but id like to try to bring up another theme that keeps popping up as well. I f you notice Holden down grades just about every person he introduces to the reader. He is always bringing up imperfections and things of others that are aggravating him. In a result to this Holden continues to bring up the fact that he feels lonely especially when he is in New York. “New York’s terrible when somebody laughs on the street very late at night. You can hear it for miles. It makes you feel so lonesome and depressed.”(pg.81) this is just one out of the several times Holden mentions his loneliness. I feel J.D Salinger is trying to give out the theme that if people cant find away to get over other’s negative things and not just go along with the positive then they will wind up just as lonely as Holden himself. Another thing I would like to bring up is a word other than phony that is repetitive throughout the story. This word is madman. The things he refers to as madman to me doesn’t seem really that crazy to me. I mean the stuff we see today doesn’t even compare to the so call madman stuff Holden talks about. For instance “I apologized like a madman, because the band was starting a fast past.” First of all how does someone apologize like a madman and second of all, is all this stuff that he is referring to the same madman stuff he was talking about on the fist page? Or does something else happen? That is just something I feel is important to keep in mind while reading rest of the story.
Before I really get into “Story of an Hour” by Kate Chopin I have a question. This might sound stupid but Mr. Mallard isn’t the one who dies right? I know Mrs. Mallard dies but I don’t think Mr. Mallard dies, because when I was reading other peoples post a few mentions he dies so I wasn’t sure if that was correct. Anyway this story is told in third person limited. I think the message of this story is quite opposite from Catcher in the Rye, because Holden is lonely and needs friends but Mrs. Mallard wants to become more independent and have life to herself. I don’t think Mrs. Mallard was trying to be rude when she was saying she was free this was just her way of cooping with this shocking news. At the same time the author Kate Chopin gives off a theme of independence where as J.D Salinger talks about loneliness.

Jess L 2 said...

I also have to agree with the majority of people so far in saying that the theme seems to be about phonies and fakes. I think the point Salinger is trying to get across is not to judge people and just focus on their flaws, because nobody's perfect, not even you. He does this by showing the character Holden repeatedly complaining about phonies, and then acting fake himself. And to answer Casey's question, Mr. Mallard does not die, because he walks in at the end of the story, and that shock is what finally kills his wife.
One of the major themes in The Catcher in the Rye seems to be that people change. For example, Holden has a habit of making fun of and mocking people, and then saying that he feels sorry for them. Someone previously mentioned Ackley as an example of this, and I agree, because he hates him at first, but then he eventually asks him to go hang out with him and go see a movie.

Herman T 2 said...

Wow. People post so quickly now, that I what I have to say is practically everything that has been said. Salinger’s big idea of the world is phony. The word phony doesn’t sound all too impressive but for Salinger he his labeling everyone as a phony. Holden is Salinger’s messenger. Holden carries out his point in the Cather of the Rye. He calls everyone a phony and we all know that Holden is partially phony himself. A phony is a person with a deception made for personal gain. What is Holden trying to achieve for himself? He things the world is a phony too, so what exactly are these phonies looking for? Salinger could be hiding a stronger meaning in the book than phony. The short story has a similar meaning to the Catcher in the Rye because Mrs. Mallard was a woman with heart troubles, indicating that she was a person with a faint heart. Learning that her husband died she goes into a stage of grief. Or was it? When I was reading it I thought she was sad that her husband has just died till the clues started to indicate that she was free, her body and soul. Then I realize that she was happy to be free from him. There was a part mentioning the monster. The monster was “There was something coming to her and she was waiting for it, fearfully. What was it? She did not know; it was too subtle and elusive to name. But she felt it, creeping out of the sky, reaching toward her through the sounds, the scents, the color that filled the air.” joy. She described the monster as elusive and subtle because she probably hasn’t felt the effects of joy in a long time because she was married to a man whom she disliked. She then dies from joy which she couldn’t take because of her faint heart so she dies. Tragic.

will h 4 said...

I think that Salinger is telling us that the world is very unforgiving and lonesome. This is shown when Holden is in New York, he is very lonely. he tries to make friends with the two taxi drivers he meets and with the girls at the night club. The world is shown as unforgiving when all five of the people decline his invitaions. It is also shown when Stradlater and Holden fight and Holden is left lonely when they stop talking. Everyone Holden talks to in New York uses a angry or annoyed tone with him, which shows the lack of forgiving in the world.

i think that when Mrs. Mallard cried she did it to hide her joy from everybody. i agree with chloe when she said that it was ironic that Mrs. Mallard died just when she was relieved from her husband. i think that Mr. Mallard was a terrible person to Mrs. Mallard, because of how relieved she was when he died.

sandy j 2 said...

The theme of “Catcher in the rye “is that every one who’s in a high social class is a phony. Holden is trying to make us see and make us think that almost everyone is a phony. He’s not rational because sometimes in the story, he only thinks someone is phony just because he doesn’t like something about them. In the book, Holden doesn’t even know the character, but yet he still judges them by their looks and just assumes that they are phony. Holden’s tone is mostly sarcastic in the story and I think it shows a big part of his personality. His tone implies what he really thinks of the world and the people in it, the speaker made this clear by sometimes putting a certain letter in bold for emphasis. One large idea I see in the text is Holden’s relation to Jane Gallagher. He really had something special with her, and he sounded happy when he was with her. He thinks about her several times in the story and I think that Jane is a symbol when Holden used to be happy.

barbara j 2 said...

To me, in the “Catcher in the Rye” a significant symbol in the book is the ducks from the lagoon because it came up in the text three times so far. Every time Holden gets a chance to he tries to ask his driver if he knows what happened to them. This brings me with the connection of the short story the “story of an hour” by Kate Chopin, that Mrs. Mallard the main character has a name that relates to the ducks because it means: wild ducks, from which domestic duck are descended. I haven’t quite understood it well but that’s something to think of. I agree with Casey when she says that the “Catcher in the Rye” and the “Story of an hour” are opposite to each other. Mrs. Mallard tried to fight back but she had to admit to herself that her husband’s “death” was her entrance to freedom. It doesn’t mean that she rejoices at her husband’s death but she seems happy that she won’t live for her husband but for her self. Holden in the other hand feels sad and depressed especially after his brother’s death. Also because like Jill said, he feels like he is the outcast of the family.

Mr. Walsh said...

Casey, nice job noticing the repetition of madman. A clue?
I also like your idea of the how the stories have opposite themes.

Will, nice inference about Mr. Mallard.

What other repetitious items have come up in Catcher?

Mat M. 4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mat M. 4 said...

Well some themes are more obvious than others in “Catcher”. I agree with Jonathan and I also think a major theme that Salinger shows is phoniness and hypocrisy in the world. Holden is the “messenger” of it and Salinger creates Holden to be the embodiment of his view of the world. What I don’t like about Holden is he becomes hypocritical and phony himself when he says how he has seen movies yet at the beginning he is ragging on them. What’s his deal and why does he do that? As a reader I feel that Salinger is telling us that phoniness can become the death of us, (the world). In the short story the author causes us to be narrow-minded of what happens in the story, yet she makes us realize a different point of view. I think that “Catcher” and “Story of an Hour” both are stories that twist our point of view at a certain turning point in both texts and is telling us to be more broadminded of what is in front of us.

Andy T. 4 said...

Like others have said, phoniness is one of the major themes. Holden is always telling us how he hates phonies but he is one himself. Holden lies to almost everyone he has met. Holden pretends to be your friend but afterwards he starts to think to himself the things he hates about you. I agree with Herman that Salinger probably has a stronger meaning in the book that he is hiding from us with the word phony.
In the short story, I also agreed with Chloe that when Mrs. Mallard found out that Mr. Mallard had past away, she realized that she was happier without him. She didn’t like being married for him and afterwards she found herself free. When she realized she was free, she got so excited that her heart problems couldn’t take and that’s why she died of a heart disease.

sandy j 2 said...

At first in the story “Story of an hour”, the author made it seem like the news devastated her. She went into a corner and cried, and the author made it seem like the news of her husband’s death destroyed her. She couldn’t even be around people, and she needed a moment alone. Although at first she was scared of her joy because it surprised her, then she really liked it and started accepting the fact that she was free. She was happy that her husband had died and she was finally free. I infer that she felt like she was in chains or in prison because in the story it says she could finally live for herself. She didn’t exactly love her husband too much but she did sometimes. That’s why she had to shed a few tears for her.
From this story, what I learned about reading is that it can be like a movie if it wants to. It’s so normal in the beginning but then the twist was waiting to happen. The character shift in the story was genius because it made sense. First the wife thought her husband died, so she became elated and from that she died. Only after for everyone else to find out that her husband wasn’t dead after all. This story taught me that life is just full of surprises and you should just never get too comfortable. I connect this text to “Bullet in the brain” because it was a typical day at the bank when his life was taken away. We thought he was a real bandit in the beginning but after when we learned about him through his thoughts, we see another more humane side of him.

Amir Q. 4 said...

Salinger is telling us that people and the world is not always at it appears to be. He uses Holden to demonstrate this point. Holden’s world is full of phonies, people who appear to be someone/something else than they really are. Even Holden himself is a phony, as in one chapter after he arrives in New York he feels lonely and asks the cab driver to go and have a cocktail with him, and he also lies that he is loaded in order to make his request more appealing. He himself says that he is a great liar, which makes a hypocrite because he hates the world for being so phony yet he is phony himself, I think he realizes that and it adds to his somewhat depressive and pessimistic state. In “Story of an Hour” the main character learns of her husband’s death and although he appears to feel remorse and sadness she truthfully is very glad because she is now free to do what she always wanted to do without any distractions and comments from her husband. She is a phony as she appears in a state in which she in reality is not in. I think social class has nothing to do with phoniness as all people can be phony just to get what they want; the rich and the poor have similar reasons to be phony. Also as shown when in the hotel, Holden watches other people do what he considers disturbing things yet he keeps on watching them, when he actually sees people not be phony I think he might prefer the phoniness to realty although reality seems to interest him as well.

::HebaK:: 4 said...

In the short story, The Story of an Hour by Kate Chopin Bio, the main character decides to isolate herself form the world because she thought she lost her husband. The shock made her make her a drastic decision to block everyone out of her life, to never get married again. In the novel, The Catcher in the Rye by J.D Salinger, Holden Caulfield isolates himself from the world because of the death of his younger brother, Allie. Isolation and alienation are themes in the novel. Holden isolates himself, people didn’t isolate him. I think Holden feels safe alienating himself from the world, he does not want to face Allies death. I also think that the author is trying to tell us that real life needs to faced.

Cristina V 2 said...

I completely agree with Kellie and Savannah. Holden thinks everyone is phony and he is the only one in the world who isn’t, to me, he is just as phony as the rest of them. He acted as though he was interested in the three women at the bar when really he wasn’t; he was merely looking for something to do. In the short story, “Story of an Hour” by Kate Chopin, the women seems happy, and relieved that her husband is gone, and to me this seems phony. If you love someone you shouldn’t be happy when they die. Both Holden and the women in the story both seem to be settling for less. Holden’s view of the world is that everyone is phony however, Salinger’s view is that people often settle for less and are not as happy as they could be.

Cristina V 2 said...

I completely agree with Kellie and Savannah. Holden thinks everyone is phony and he is the only one in the world who isn’t, to me, he is just as phony as the rest of them. He acted as though he was interested in the three women at the bar when really he wasn’t; he was merely looking for something to do. In the short story, “Story of an Hour” by Kate Chopin, the women seems happy, and relieved that her husband is gone, and to me this seems phony. If you love someone you shouldn’t be happy when they die. Both Holden and the women in the story both seem to be settling for less. Holden’s view of the world is that everyone is phony however, Salinger’s view is that people often settle for less and are not as happy as they could be.

Malik B. 4 said...

Holden often contradicts himself and as the story progresses I dislike him as a character more and more. Holden does and says things he clearly hasn’t thought through showing his immaturity. He also shows a childish side by using taunting tactics with Stradlater as well as Maurice after it was proven not to be successful the first time. Holden says he doesn’t like violence but doesn’t do very much to avoid violent situations.
I also wanted to bring up that I think Holden holds some resent toward his family starting with his parents. After Allie died the family seemed to break a part as D.B went off to Hollywood and Holden himself had to go off to school. I think Holden blames his parents for letting the family “break up” and as a result has an uneasy relationship with them. I don’t believe Holden holds resent toward Phoebe because as a younger person she is innocent and can’t control the situation. I believe that Holden gets a long so well with Phoebe because she has yet done anything to ruin the family’s bond.I think Salinger’s goal in addressing phoniness in the world was to show how people act and say certain things to fit into what society has accepted.

jimmy v. 2 said...

In the short story ''Story of an Hour'' by Kate Chopin, the author plays with our perception of the text by making Louise all happy that her husband is dead because she thinks it over and she never really loved him and then at the end, she reveals that Mrs.Mallard's husband is really still alive. In Holden's words it ''kills'' her, literally. Chopin makes it sound like we should be really sorry for Louise writing, ''Josephine who told her, in broken sentences; veiled hints that revealed in half concealing....and had hastened to forestall any less careful, less tender friend in bearing the sad message.''(Paragraph 2) The scene is depicted with Louise being the sickly old woman and her two friends surrounding her about to break the horrible news. This makes us feel bad for the old lady. In the end, they didnt have to be that sorry because Mr. Mallard wasn't even really dead, and Louise dies probably because she was shocked. Good Game.
I also found out that a mallard is a kind of duck, does this relate to Holden wondering where ducks go in the winter?

Also, I liked when Holden was talking to the cab driver and the cab driver was all crazy talking about how the fish get frozen and suck nutrients from seaweed. HAHA.

DAvid T 2 said...

J.D. Salinger tells us that the world is full of fakes, and that you can’t really trust what one person says. Everyone in the world is hypocrites. Holden would be an example of this. Holden hates the people around him because they are all phonies, but he also does and says phony things. By doing so, Holden becomes a hypocrite. But, there’s no helping it. We have to act phony to survive in this world. If everyone spoke what was on their minds, like Anders in Bullet in the Brain by Tobias Wolff, we’d all get shot. In "Story of an Hour" by Kate Chopin, we see Mrs. Mallard as someone who loved her husband dearly. At the beginning, she seemed to be grieving the loss of her husband. But, as she sat in her room, she began to say, “free, free, free!" and she was beginning to come alive. She felt free from her husband. There was no one who would control her now. She was free to do as she wished. At this point, we would have a different perception of Mrs. Mallard. We had thought of her as a sweet lady who cared deeply for her husband, but then we would begin to think that she was an ungrateful wife who rejoiced in the death of her husband. But, we’re forgetting that she had tried to keep those feelings of rejoice back. At the end, she ended up dying and Mr. Mallard was never dead.

henry d:2 said...

Jimmy in a way it could relate to the ducks in the “Catcher in the Rye.” Louise was a trapped women in a unhappy marriage. Louise’s dream of wanting to be free could be the frozen environment. Many evidences from the story shows that she longed or desired the feeling of freedom. In the 4 paragraph the description of the opened window and the comfortable roomy chair showed how she was free when her husband supposedly died. I disagree when you said Louise was an old lady, in paragraph 8 it says “She was young, with a fair, calm face…” I agree with Ngoc about the theme she composed “I guess what Kate Chopin is trying to convey through this story is that women are oppressed by men and that women are truly free when they are not around anymore, both ‘body and soul‘.” Jimmy I don’t think Louise died due to being shocked, but I picture it as a grant to truly be free from the unhappy marriage by death.

Yeah I liked the part too, really humorous.

jimmy v. 2 said...

What kind of evidences show that she longed or desired the feeling of freedom? Also, are you just going to come to a hasty conclusion that she is not old just because the text says she was ''young''? it also says ''whose lines bespoke repression and even a certain strength. But now there was a dull stare in her eyes, whose gaze was fixed away off yonder on one of those patches of blue sky.''(paragraph 8) It says she had lines, probably meant wrinkles = old person. Also, it says in the first paragraph, ''Mrs. Mallard was afflicted with a heart trouble, great care was taken to break to her as gently as possible'' She had heart trouble which also shows that she is probably old. Henry, I still stand by my guess that Louise died of shock from seeing Mr.Mallard alive. You make it sound like she had some angelic ray hit her and she flew into heaven. Even the text suggests that she was killed by shock, ''When the doctors came they said she had died of heart disease--of the joy that kills.'' cardiac arrest anyone?

I don't really agree with you guys that Chopin is saying that men oppress women. From what I get, shes just not in love with him and shes glad he died so that she can be free. He wasnt like, her pimp or anything. It really just saved her the trouble of breaking up with him. =]

henry d:2 said...

Jimmy obviously you weren’t looking further than the shallow area of the pool, with your conclusion you may as well be blind. Due to your inane disbelief of my evidences, I shall give you new ones. “She could see in the open square before her house the tops of trees that were all aquiver with the new spring of life. The delicious breath of rain was in the air.(Paragraph 5)” This symbolizes her freedom, the taste of new life. Spring being the start of blooming flowers shows her freedom being bloomed. It is also a common knowledge that marriages are not always about mutual love and the time that Chopin was writing, this was more often the case. The constant name change also showed how she was oppressed. Having the name Ms. Millard when married, she loses her identity and is given a new strange one. In a symbolic way she is a property of the husband. We are told her name when the news of her husband is dead, when she is most free and released of the oppression. Clearly it wasn’t a angelic ray hit her and she flew into heaven it’s just that it could be argued that her death was ultimately freedom from her marriage. Jimmy when you said “I don't really agree with you guys that Chopin is saying that men oppress women. From what I get, she’s just not in love with him and she’s glad he died so that she can be free.” that’s clearly oppression she wanted to be free from him. The husband doesn’t really matter the main thing is marriage, that is the thing that oppresses women.

jimmy v. 2 said...

My conclusion about what? I had like three topics. And what evidences?, you just said there were a lot of them. You did not specifically show any, therefore no one could believe or disbelieve them because they arent shown.

You said that, ''It is also a common knowledge that marriages are not always about mutual love and the time that Chopin was writing, this was more often the case.'' How is this common knowledge? We're in 10th grade, I doubt any of us seriously know that marriages are not always about ''mutual love'' like we know that britney spears split with k-fed.

Oppression means : the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner. If she married him, how is he unjustly exercising authority? She CHOSE to marry him, she gave consent. Besides, Mr.Mallard is barely characterized in this short story so how could you know he was oppressive? He was only talked about when they said he died and when they found out he didnt.

She wanted to be free from BEING WITH HIM. I don't think that Louise wanted to free herself from the shackles of his oppression. That is kind of dramatic dont you think? Also, how does marriage oppress women? You say it like we're all monkeys and dragging women to the altar in a cruel way. She married him because she thought she loved him, when Mr.Mallard died and she was free(as in not carrying a burden anymore) BECAUSE she figured she never really loved him. The surprise of seeing him alive killed her.

I think blogging is fun when we're not just summarizing stuff. :d

henry d:2 said...

My conclusion about what? I had like three topics. And what evidences?, you just said there were a lot of them. You did not specifically show any, therefore no one could believe or disbelieve them because they arent shown.
-----------------------------------
“She could see in the open square before her house the tops of trees that were all aquiver with the new spring of life. The delicious breath of rain was in the air.(Paragraph 5)” This is clearly a evidence
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You said that, ''It is also a common knowledge that marriages are not always about mutual love and the time that Chopin was writing, this was more often the case.'' How is this common knowledge? We're in 10th grade, I doubt any of us seriously know that marriages are not always about ''mutual love'' like we know that britney spears split with k-fed.
----------------------------------
Researching is key to common knowledge, try it.
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Oppression means : the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner. If she married him, how is he unjustly exercising authority? She CHOSE to marry him, she gave consent. Besides, Mr.Mallard is barely characterized in this short story so how could you know he was oppressive? He was only talked about when they said he died and when they found out he didnt.
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When did it said she married him pureposely? We clearly don't have enough evidence for that. We have more evidence to back up that she wanted to be free.
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She wanted to be free from BEING WITH HIM. I don't think that Louise wanted to free herself from the shackles of his oppression. That is kind of dramatic dont you think? Also, how does marriage oppress women? You say it like we're all monkeys and dragging women to the altar in a cruel way. She married him because she thought she loved him, when Mr.Mallard died and she was free(as in not carrying a burden anymore) BECAUSE she figured she never really loved him. The surprise of seeing him alive killed her.
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Being with him = Shackles of his oppression.
Marriages oppress women because most often in that time they were married due to some other reason then "mutual love." What do you mean figured out she never really loved him? She never did and she realized it. As I said before it was clearly a arguement that argued that her death was ultimately freedom from her marriage, not a known fact.
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Mr. Walsh said...

Henry and Jimmy - Nice little debate at the end. Just watch the sarcasm!

Yes, it is better when you are not summarizing and you can argue!!!

Kim C 2 said...

I agree from most of you up there that Salinger is telling us that the world is phony. From time to time, Holden shows disappointment towards the phony world, when Spencer mentioned that life is a game. Holden didn’t agree with what Spencer had said, instead he thought that life is only a game when someone is on the winning side and when it’s the losing side, it is nothing of a game but just the phony world.
I should have commented earlier, but I forgot yesterday was Tuesday.