Thursday, November 1, 2007

Antigone and Persuasion

















Antigone deals directly with characters struggling to have their voices heard. In Scene Three, Haimon and Creon argue their points and attempt to persuade one another while using different rhetoric techniques.

According to Aristotle, rhetoric is "the ability, in each particular case, to see the available means of persuasion." According to Aristotle, there are three main forms of rhetoric: Ethos, Logos, and Pathos. To guide you in understanding persuasion, use any of these websites to help you: Art of Rhetoric , Ethos, Pathos, Logos or Modes of Persuasion.

For this blog assignment, I want you to examine the speeches and comment on how the characters try to persuade one another. You should reference one or more modes of persuasion. You should also comment on possible flaws/points in their arguments and your comment should point to what larger idea(s) is being expressed.

Open Response Rubric

4 - 400 words, follows organizational model, refers to and integrates text, analyzes persuasive technique and points to larger idea
3 - 300 words, has organization, refers to text, some reference to persuasive techniques, and points to larger idea
2 - 200 words, may or may not quote text, refers generally to persuasive techniques, may or may not mention larger idea
1 - less than 200 words, does not directly refer to text or elements of persuasion



The text of the speech can be found at this website: http://www.mala.bc.ca/~johnstoi/sophocles/antigone.htm The speeches begin on lines 720-820. I will also allow you to take the text home, if needed.

The assignment is due November 9th.

45 comments:

Chloe C 2 said...

There are three types of persuasion techniques. They are ethos, an approach in which the audience trusts the speaker and the information given, pathos, an emotional approach, and logos, a logical approach. If combined effectively, the speech is very persuasive. The characters King Creon and Haemon, his son, of the play ¬Antigone by Sophocles try to convince the other to accept their opinion with a lengthy speech apiece. They argue about the innocence of Creon’s niece and Haemon’s fiancé, Antigone.

Creon wants to convince his son that Antigone is a bad person, a person deserving the punishment he gives. Creon’s language is fully stocked with colorful language. The words paint a vivid image. He tells Haemon not to “throw good sense aside for…some woman’s sake”. He describes a woman’s embrace as “freezing cold” and mentions the gods, Zeus in particular, since he is “the god of blood relationships”. The vivid descriptions show that the rhetoric style he is using is pathos. One cannot be entirely sure if Sophocles intended Creon’s speech to contain pathos, though it certainly did exist at the time. Greek plays usually have very lengthy and detailed dialogue so the way of speaking may have been added just to make the play more dramatic. Creon’s speech also has some logos, to an extent. Creon claims that people are challenging his power which would “[destroy] whole cities, [turn] households into ruins, and in war [make] soldiers break and run away.” This is true, because the next in line for the throne is unclear. Cousins of the former King will fight and the land of Thebes will be ruled by anarchy. The logic is there but it is somewhat exaggerated and hidden in the pathos.

Haemon wants his father to let go of his pride. He doesn’t let his father know that he still loves her, but tries to convince Creon to forgive Antigone. He, like his father, tries to prove his point using imagery. Haemon portrays Antigone as noble, a woman who will protect her dead brother from being “ripped apart by carrion dogs or birds.” He also gives a descriptive picture a storm wind that bends some branches and breaks others to illustrate his point. The emotion educing wording would be pathos. He, like his father uses some logos. Haemon tells Creon that even a wise man has “nothing shameful in learning many things” such as “staying flexible”. Even though he may have written a law that makes Antigone guilty, he should be lenient on her sentence because “the city is upset about the girl.” It is a universal lesson that can be applied everywhere, even nature, as Haemon demonstrated. Haemon also uses flattery in order to get himself on good terms with his father. This may be a form of ethos (I’m not sure) because it gives the image that he respects the other’s ideas.

Haemon’s and Creon’s speeches are effective because they use some of the rhetoric styles. The techniques appeal to different crowds. If a speech is able to incorporate all of them smoothly, the speech will be considered very persuasive. A larger idea that is present in both speeches is loyalty. Creon is loyal to his laws, keeping to his word. Even though Antigone is his blood niece, he still stays by his word, not wanting to make a lie to the people. Haemon says that he is loyal to his father, that he will accept all the decisions that the King makes. But later, he proves himself to be more loyal towards Antigone. He understands her reasoning, and defends his fiancé even if it means he has to defy his father. But loyalty is ever changing and one of them will have to revise their opinion if there is to be a happy ending.

(I know there’s a lot, but I’d much rather overwrite than underwrite.)

Jeniffer M 2 said...

Creon and Haimon have a heated argument about Antigone and her actions. Creon believes that she must pay for what she's done with her life, and only because he's filled with pride and didn't like that she disobeyed him. Haimon loves Antigone and only wants them to get married. Haimon uses Pathos, persuading emotionally, to try and convince Creon of the good in what she's done and see that "When in the slaughter her own brother died, she did not leave him there, unburied" (line 789-790) He's trying to show Creon that she disobeyed him because she loved her brother and wanted to honor him. Creon uses Ethos because he believes "...[they] must obey whatever man the city puts in charge.."(line 760-761) and he is the man who is in charge so he's arrogant and believes his authority must be obeyed.
Creon doesn't always say the most just things. When speaking of Antigone, he mentions that there is no "...greater wound than a false friend."(line 740) But he only says this and he only thinks that she is a false friend because he's too proud and wants people to obey him because he is king.
The main idea is pride because it follows this story from beginning to end. Creon shows pride and arrogance when first punishing Antigone because he wants people to obey him and he's blinded by pride. Pride has made him unable to see the true honor she deserved from doing a respectable thing.

Marissa G 4 said...

There are three types of persuasion they are ethos, logos, and pathos. Ethos is appeal based on the character or speaker, relies on the reputation of the author. Logos is appeal based on logic or reason, distributed by companies or corporations. Pathos is appeal based on emotion, advertisements are often an example of this. When using these techniques the speaker will be persuading their audience. In the play Antigone Creon and his son Haemon try to persuade each other that they were right. Creon believed that Antigone was wrong and should be killed and Haemon believed the opposite that Antigone has the right to burry her brother and should not be killed. In Creon’s speech he uses the technique of pathos he is playing with Haemon’s emotions telling him of what a father wants in a son. Also in Creon’s speech he also uses the technique of logos, when he is speaking of how a women will only hurt him and marriage is the wrong thing to do. Haemon uses logos to try and persuade his father into letting Antigone live. He used logos in “Father, the gods instill good sense in men” this says that all men have some sort of logic or reasoning given to them by god so, Creon should realize that what Antigone did was not wrong. After Haemon speech Creon still believed that he was right, then we later learn that he did realize that the was wrong but did not want to admit it. Did this realization have anything to do with is sons persuasive speech??

Trang T 2 said...

As in life and literature, people occasionally have arguments with others because they try to protect their held beliefs. In order to convince the audience or outsiders, arguers should have logic and critical reasons. Based on Aristotle, there are 3 mayor types of persuasive techniques: logos, a technique using logical reasoning; pathos, related to sympathy and emotions; ethos, the trust worthiness of speaker. In Antigone play by Sophocles, the King Creon and Haimon, his son, believe in their own principles and they try to fight for it by different methods to persuade each other and the readers.
Believing in his powerful pride, Creon has explained to Haimon what the King must know how to control his people properly and how to punish them if they transgress the law. Creon lectures Haimon should not lose his head over a woman, Antigone “my son,
don’t ever throw good sense aside for pleasure for some woman’s sake.’’ Creon is using Ethos method; he wants to convince his son with sincere and fair speech. Furthermore, he has used logos technique with critical reasoning. By using his experiences being the King, Creon has showed Haimon how to govern a country wisely “The man who acts well with his household will be found a just man in the city.* I’d trust such a man to govern wisely or to be content with someone ruling him.” And because his power, he thinks he can persuade Haimon that Antigone has broken the law and she deserves to be punished as a traitor. Haimon should not only obey his decree but also should recognize Antigone’s disobedience prove her a bad woman. In the other hand, Haimon has believes in his own principle and he tries to fight for it. He still shows his respect to his father “I could not find your words somehow not right—I hope that’s something I never learn to do.” He defenses Antigone’s view point. He tries to persuade his father that what makes her do it is her love to her brother and her loyalty to family. She covers Polyneices’ body in order to keep him away from dogs and vultures. “When in the slaughter her own brother died, she did not just leave him there unburied, to be ripped apart by carrion dogs or birds.”
There’s nothing wrong or illegal about it. Haimon uses Pathos method in literature to convince Creon. Although, there’s no logics or knowledgeable reasoning, but Haimon fights against Creon by his emotions and true feelings. He also persuades Creon should not consider his pride too much “A man who thinks that only he is wise, that he can speak and think like no one else…even if he’s wise, there’s nothing shameful in learning many things, staying flexible.” This is ethos technique. He wants to convince Creon should have another perspective of life. Being opinionated is not always a good choice.
Throughout their conversation with strongly held beliefs, the larger idea is about loyalty and power believed should be yielded depending on different circumstances.

Kellie L 4 said...

In the play "Antigone", three persuasion techniques are used by characters to change a different character's mind. These techniques are ethos, pathos, and logos. One specific time when Creon tries to change Heamon's mind about marrying Antigone is an example of ethos. "That's what men pray for-obedient children growing up at home who will pay back their father's enemies, evil to them for evil done to him." (line 641-644) In this quote, Creon is telling Haemon that he always wanted a son that would stand by his side and get revenge on anyone who dishonored him. This is an example of ethos because the appeal of Haemon's character is based on what Creon wants him to be. Another instance is when Creon tries to persuade Haemon that Antigone is wrong. "And what you do-does that include this, honouring those who act against our laws?" (line 730-731) This is an example of logos because logos is persuading someone out of logic or reason. In this quote, Creon proves that Antigone is at fault and those who are disobedient should not be honored. It is logic that people who disobey the laws should not be honored. The final persuasion technique is pathos. Pathos is persuading someone by making them feel some sort of emotion. We see this when Haemon stands up for Antigone. "She'll not die with me just standing there. And as for you-your eyes will never see my face again." (line 871-873) Haemon tries to make his father feel guilty for driving him away from his son and doubtful of his decision. Because of Creon's decision to kill Antigone, Creon might not see his son again. By using pathos, Haemon tries to make his father feel sorry, guilty, and shameful for his decision on killing Antigone. Throughout the play, persuasion is used to change the personalities of characters such as Creon. Because of Haemon, he realized that he was wrong the whole time, but he realized this too late.

Victoria P. 4 said...

In life and literature there are many different ways to speak and be spoken to. In the story, “Antigone” there are many displays of a different ways to persuade a person. Aristotle had made three different forms of what is called rhetoric techniques. They are three ways in which the person can try to persuade the audience or another person with a different approach. These techniques are Logos, Ethos and Pathos. Logos is appeal to intellect. In other words it is when a person tries to approach the situation with a logical way. Ethos is an appeal to expertise authority. Ethos could also be described as understanding completely what the person is telling you and relaying on information given to the person or audience. The last technique is Pathos. Pathos is an appeal to emotions or ones values. All three of these techniques have been displayed in “Antigone”.

In the play, both Creon and Haemon are trying to make each other realize there mistakes and want each other to see their side to the incident concerning Antigone. Creon feels that Antigone should be killed for her actions and Haemon uses the logos technique for Creon to realize Haemon’s opinion and side to the situation. Haemon uses logos by using logic when he speaks. He shows this when he says, “Father, the gods instill good sense in men—” and “when men speak well, it good to learn from them.” Haemon is wise for his age and even shows to his father, Creon, that he can use the logos technique to have his father change his mind and plan for Antigone’s death. Haemon’s talk with his father had an impact on the way things turn out at the end of the story, possibly because of the logos technique displayed by him.

Creon also uses a rhetoric technique. He uses the pathos technique numerous times throughout his speech. He starts off by saying. “So, my son, don’t ever throw good sense aside for pleasure, for some woman’s sake.” This displays the pathos technique by showing an emotional side of how Haemon should not risk his own good pleasure and well-being for Antigone. Creon tries to persuade Haemon into his point of view by describing the way Antigone had went against his wishes and how awful it was for him to be defied. Creon is very persuasive towards Haemon when he says, “I’d trust such a man to govern wisely
or to be content with someone ruling him.” He uses pathos by putting Haemon in his shoes and showing him the emotional side and appeal of his duties and the way he has to have complete control over everything happening within the city. Creon displays many acts of pathos by trying to make Haemon feel almost “guilty” for even mentioning how Antigone is right. He would consider Haemon to be “betraying” him if he was to go against what Creon feels is right.

Haemon could have went into more about how he would have done the same thing for a family member. He could have shown Creon how Antigone was torn between right and wrong. Creon could have also showed Haemon that he could not make any exceptions to the rules. Creon had made a strict rule for no one to touch the corpse and Antigone defied him. Both Creon and Haemon made good persuasion but no matter the situation both would eventually do what they felt would be the right thing.

casey w. 4 said...

In the story Antigone by Sophocles the King of Thebes and his son are disagreeing on Creon’s decisions. They are both trying to persuade one another’s mind by using different methods of persuasion. There are three popular types of persuasion. Ethos has to do with the people around the speaker believing what they are saying. Pathos triggers the emotions and values of the subject and logos are an intellect approach or another word logical. While Creon battles his son over what is the right thing to do about Anitgone, Creon’s niece and his son’s fiancé they both use these three different methods to try to convince on another that they know what is best.
Creon is the King and it is difficult to try to tell him what he thinks is wrong because he has a huge ego and does not want to see his pride getting hurt. Creon believes that his niece Antigone deserves brutal punishment for going against his word by barring her brother which was said to be forbidden. Creon ties to trigger his son Haemon by using the pathos method. He begins conning his son right away by making sure his son is “obey[ing] thy father’s will.” (Line 721)This brings out an emotional approach because he is using his son and father relationship to persuade his son not to go against his word. He also thinks it is absurd that a “women” would “worst [them]” by dishonoring Thebes so he wants his son to realize that not only did Antigone transgress the law but she is also a women which makes matters worse.
Haemon loves Antigone and does not want to see his fiancé be killed so this issue becomes more personal than anything. He threatens Creon that if “she must die” then her “death will destroy another.” meaning himself which is also another example of a pathos approach because it triggers Creon’s emotions. Haemon also use the logos method. He lets his father know that “this is no city which belongs to one man” (line756) this is a logical point because it is true; the city may get upset if Creon tries to make all the decisions without discussing it with others. Haemon also reveals that age does not matter when it comes to decisions. If a person has the wisdom to help better a situation then it should not matter if they are twelve or fifty. This is another logical point brought up by Haemon to persuade his father that Antigone was an innocent woman who had the right to bury her brother.
Haemon and Creon both want the same thing. They want one another to agree that what one another are saying is right. Creon does a great job by trying to make his son feel bad for going against his father’s words but after that his strength on the persuasion begins to weaken because Haemon’s logical points stump him. Haemon does a better job of persuading his father and not breaking down by siding with Creon. Creon also does not side with his son but he losses focus as the conversation goes on which makes his point sound weak. When we try to persuade someone we must stay confident because as soon as we look like were doubting our own beliefs then any chance of persuading is lost.

Thanh N. 4 said...

Creon and Haemon use all different styles of persuasion to get to their point. They would both use the three different modes of persuasion, which is ethos, pathos, and logos. Creon is the type of person that uses a lot of ethos in his persuasions and a little bit of logos. Haemon, however, uses all the persuasion styles.

Creon likes to have everything done his way and that means he uses ethos the most. Once Creon began to think that Haemon should always “stand behind [his] father’s judgment on every issue” (726-728), he thinks of himself as a powerful person. Creon is the king of Thebes, so he does have power, but he is using the power to get people to do everything he says. To make things better he gets a small sense of pride as Haemon’s “heart should always be resolved” (725-726) on Creon’s choices. Creon feels that if he uses his superiority then it would help him get his ways easier. For example, when he asked Haemon if his punishment for Antigone was the right thing to do, Haemon couldn’t defy him right away because he was greater than him. Other than that, he wants to let his people know that “a man like that wins no praise from” (759-760) him. If the citizens of Thebes know that Creon has all the power than they would try to get respect from him. It is obvious that if someone was to defy Creon, they would be sentenced to death. Creon’s power allows him to get what he wants easier, which his way of persuasion is ethos.

Haemon, on the other hand has a different way of using his persuasion skills. Since he is only a young adult, he can’t do much but to use the style of pathos and logos. Once he said the things Creon wanted to hear, he turned back on his words and finally revealed his true thoughts. Haemon felt that Creon “can’t perceive all the things men say or do- or their complaints” (781-782) because he knows that it is wrong to do. It’s not like Haemon wasn’t aware of Creon’s actions, but he just didn’t have any say in the matter. Once he did, he uses the logos strategy to get by his point. Using the type of persuasion could help Haemon get his ways. Maybe if Creon found out what was right and what was wrong could make things better. Haemon also told his own father that his “gaze makes citizens afraid” (783), which could help the citizens. His use of logos reveals all of Creon’s characteristics and helps him get his ways. It could also make Creon a more sympathetic character if he accepts what Haemon is trying to say. Haemon is trying to get his own father to do the right thing by telling him things of what people are saying. If he keeps using logos, then Creon would try to follow what he’s trying to say and people will also think better of him as well. Haemon is only using pathos and logos so his persuasion would come off more nicely and there would be a better chance of succeeding as well.

Amir Q. 4 said...

In Sophocles’ “Antigone” the main character, Creon, and his son, Haimon, argue using all forms of rhetoric to try to convert the other. Creon mostly relies on ethos (based on his experience as king) along with pathos, to try to bring Haimon back to his side of the issue. Haimon blends pathos (as he has seen the true feelings of the people) and logos to try to convert his father to his point of view. Creon and Haimon switch between the 3 styles of rhetoric to try to persuade the other to their point of view.

Creon uses ethos, with pathos to provide support, to try to convince his son that he is right. He uses his experience as king to lure Haimon back to his side of the argument. As he has learned from his personal experience, he tries to explain to Haimon that “[There is no] greater wound than a false friend” (740) and that he should only trust those whom he knows he can trust, such as his father. He also uses some pathos as he tells Haimon that “there’s no greater evil than a lack of leadership. That destroys whole cities, turns households into ruins, and in war makes soldiers break and run away.” (763) to try to appeal to Haimon’s emotions that without a king (or more precisely him), the city would crumble. He again appeals to Haimon’s emotions by stating his “[superiority] any woman.” (772). Creon uses ethos that is based on his personal experience and pathos that he has acquired through his rule. Creon tries to force his reasoning’s upon Haimon yet he fails in gaining Haimon’s support.

Haimon blends together pathos and logos to try to convince his father that he is wrong. He first informs Creon that his harsh control over the city renders his citizens unable to “say anything you would not like to hear” (784). He then proceeds to use pathos by informing him that “the city is upset about the girl” (786) to appeal to him emotionally that his people are upset about his decision. Haimon then goes on to compliment Creon to try to “soften him” for his next bold statement that goes against everything Creon has said previously. Haimon cleverly blends pathos and logos into a convincing statement by telling Creon to not “let your mind dwell on just one thought, that what you say is right and nothing else. A man who thinks that only he is wise, that he can speak and think like no one else, when such men are exposed, then all can see their emptiness inside” (799). Haimon uses pathos and logos cleverly together by stating an opinion that appeals to the emotions of others and enforcing it with logic. Even with Haimon’s great use of pathos and logos, he fails to convince Creon to change his ways.

Mr. Walsh said...

Hey everyone,

You are writing some excellent stuff. I have seen marked improvement in everyone's thinking and writing in the first quarter.

Keep it up.

For those just posting, don't feel restrained by the word limit. The number of words is just a guide to make sure you provide enough evidence. An individual can write a really strong response in varying lengths.

Thanks,
Mr. Walsh

Herman T 2 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jonathan C. 4 said...

There are three forms of persuasion used in the ancient tragedy Antigone such as Ethos, Pathos, and Logos. An example of Ethos was when Haimon first entered the room with Creon. "Father, I'm yours. For me your judgments and the ways you act on them are good -I shall follow them. I'll not consider any marriage a greater benefit than your fine leadership." Haimon is playing his cards right when he compliments his father, a strategic move because he plans to convince his father to spare his bride's life. The term "fine leadership" helps him get his father off guard and unprepared for his next attack of words and questions. He says that his father's leadership is good, which ties into the role of persuasion. In order to allow something to go smoothly, defenses must be dropped. Haimon was getting Creon's defense down so that it would be easier to talk him out of killing Antigone. “But in the darkness I can hear them talk the city is upset about the girl. They say of all women here she’s least deserves the worst of deaths for her most glorious act.” This is an example of Pathos because Haimon is stating what other people think and how they feel about the subject so that Haimon may be able to get an idea of how other people see it, so he may change his mind. This form of persuasion is used in attempt to make someone finally see how others see it and accept new ideas. It works on emotions and will normally work if the person is considerate and is usually successful. An example of Logos is “You notice how in winter floods the trees which bend before the storm preserve their twigs. The ones who stand against it are destroyed, root and branch.” In a last attempt, Haimon tries to use basic logic to get his father to finally drop his pride and admit his fault. This is an example because Haimon is using actual logic to make his father understand everything that he is doing wrong. If trees are not able to bend, they break. This is basic knowledge, which is the basic definition of Logos.

Belinda L 4 said...

Different ways of persuasion is used to enhance the persuading effect on the piece of writing as a whole. Three different ways of persuasion include logos, ethos, and pathos. Logos is a persuasion approach that uses logic and common sense to appeal to the readers. Ethos uses the idea of trusting the persuader because of his status to catch the attention of the audience. Pathos uses a method that involves more feelings. Pathos uses more dramatic and emotional words along with powerful phrases to catch the reader’s emotions, which are used as baits to become persuaded. In Antigone by Sophocles, the king Creon and his son Haemon uses the different persuasive approaches against each other as they argue about Antigone’s death sentence. The argument is a great example for the different uses of persuasion.

Creon first uses the ethos approach towards Haemon by telling him that “[his] heart [should] be resolved, to stand by [his] father’s judgment on every issue.” (Lines 639-641)Creon uses his status as king and as Haemon’s father, to try to persuade Haemon that he should listen to him about Antigone. This is an example of using the ethos persuasion mode because Creon is using his status to get his son persuaded since he believes that his son will listen because he is the father. Creon then uses another form of persuasion in the same speech. Logos is used when Creon talks about how Antigone will receive the same punishment as anyone else would have even if she is blood related. Creon believes that “the man who acts well with his household will be found a just man in the city, [and he would] trust such a man to govern wisely.” (Lines 661-663) Creon believes that likewise, the kingdom will think that it is theoretically the right thing to do and will respect him more if Antigone is treated with the punishment. Haemon also shows the usage of persuasive modes. Pathos is used as Haemon describes what the city really thinks about Antigone and her punishment. Haemon uses a melodramatic but strong tone to say that Antigone was brave and heroic to burry her dead brother. He believes that “[she] of all women here, she’s the least deserves the worst of deaths for her most glorious act.” (Lines 787-788) Haemon uses descriptive words to persuade Creon that Antigone should not “[deserve] the worst of deaths.” It is clearly seen that the different modes of persuasion is used through the speech by both Creon and Haemon.

In the argument, Creon uses ethos and logos to try to persuade Haemon to not feel bad about Antigone and to let her go. Heamon on the other hand, is trying as hard as he can with pathos to convince his father that Antigone is doing the right thing. Their argument shows that Antigone has a huge impact on this family, dead or alive. This shows that not matter what is done, someone will end up unhappy. The larger idea of this argument shows that although Creon feels that women are inferior, in the end, it is a woman that defeats him and his family. The different approaches to persuasive speech also helped to heat the argument between father and son, which will eventually lead to Creon’s downfall.

Aaron G 2 said...

If something is wanted by and individual or group of individuals that is not wanted by that individual or group of individuals then persuasion comes into play. Aristotle refers to the word rhetoric as "the ability, in each particular case, to see the available means of persuasion", and classifies this ability in three main forms. These forms are known as modes of persuasion, the three forms are Ethos, Pathos, and Logos.
Ethos is known as appeal based on the character of the speaker. In the play Antigone, the main character Creon uses this act of persuasion towards his son Haemon. Creon uses his character of being the father “So, my son, don’t ever throw good sense aside for pleasure, for some woman’s sake (lines735-737)” to his advantage in persuasion. In doing this it gives Creon the upper hand, since it is harder to disrespect a father than a person with no relation. Haemon knows the character of his father and his fathers’ persuasion on himself. Haemon also realizes his fathers control over his city “Your gaze makes citizens afraid—they can’t say anything you would not like to hear.” So this act of persuasion does not have as much affect on Haemon.
The next act of persuasion is known as Pathos and described as appeal based on emotion. Creon also uses this act of persuasion towards Haemon to describe Haemon’s emotion towards Antigone. This emotion of love between Haemon and Antigone is threatened as Creon’s attack “ You understand how such embraces can turn freezing cold when an evil woman shares your life at home (line737-739)” is meant to persuade Haemon to defy Antigone. Yet Haemon fires right back “she did not just leave him there unburied, to be ripped apart by carrion dogs or birds (lines790-791) ” with the same act of persuasion. This retaliation shuts down Creon and his attempt of retaliation.
Logos is also attempted by Creon and defined as appeal based on logic or reason. This is Creon’s best attempt toward Haemon since Creon is a logical man. Creon illustrates “there’s no greater evil than a lack of leadership. That destroys whole cities, turns households into ruins, and in war makes soldiers break and run away (lines763-766)” which makes plenty of sense. Showing that Haemon is the son of Creon with the words “You notice how in winter floods the trees which bend before the storm preserve their twigs. The ones who stand against it are destroyed, root and branch (lines807-810)” Haemon uses his own tactic of logos. With Creon trying to outmatch Haemon’s persuasion, Creon fails and Haemon chooses Antigone.

will h 4 said...

In their speeches Creon and Haimon both use two different types of persuasion. Creon uses the method ethos and Haimon uses the method pathos. Ethos is when you persuade someone by showing that you know the subject very well and are superior in that subject. Pathos is when you appeal to the emotions of the audience to prove and support your topic.

Creon’s use of ethos works well for him in many ways. He has the superiority over everybody because he is the king of Thebes and anything he says can be believed easily. Creon believes that your age determines your knowledge and he uses his age to try and prove this to Haimon. Creon does not want to believe what Haimon wants to teach him because he is young, “And men [Creon’s] age—are [they] then going to school to learn what’s wise from men as young as [Haimon]?”(824). Creon gives Haimon praise says he is just the type of son a man would want to get him to agree with his ideas when he says, “Indeed, my son, that’s how your heart should always be resolved, to stand behind your father’s judgment on every issue. That’s what men pray for— obedient children growing up at home who will pay back their father’s enemies, evil to them for evil done to him, while honouring his friends as much as he does.”(725) He soon finds out that Haimon is not that kind of son; this is what makes Creon try to persuade him to become using ethos.

Haimon will not give in to Creon’s persuasion. Instead he uses pathos to try to get Creon to believe that age does not show wisdom and to show he is wrong about punishing. Haimon referred to the people of the city to show Creon that they are saying that killing Antigone is good because they are scared of him. “But in the darkness [Haimon] can hear them talk— the city is upset about the girl [Antigone].”(785). Creon does not want to hear this from his son, who should not be as intelligent as he is. Haimon wants his father to be able to learn from others, no matter how old they are or what their gender is. Creon does not want to hear a word of this and that bothers Haimon. Haimon begins to lose faith that his father can learn from others to do the right thing.

evelyn L 2 said...

In the story Antigone, by Sophocles, The protagonist Creon and his son Haemon have a big disagreement with what appropriate choice should be for Antigone’s punishment. They try to persuade one another and there are three types of persuasion they try to use, they are ethos, logos, and pathos. Ethos is when the reader believes and trusts the information given to them from the speaker. Logos is a logical approach and has reason. Finally Pathos takes an emotional approach.

Creon wanted Haemon to see his side of what should be done and why. Creon approaches this by trying to convince his son with the Logos technique and the Pathos technique. Creon uses the logical technique by trying to show or explain to Haemon that Antigone went against his word, and it would make sense for him to punish her especially since he is now ruler of the state. The Pathos technique is used when Creon says for Haemon not to throw it all away for a women, attacking him emotionally Creon might have had a better chance using this technique but I guess Haemon really loved Antigone. I agree with Aaron when he says that “it gives Creon the upper hand, since it is harder to disrespect a father …”, because it is much harder to disrespect him than it were just any old guy in the street that u just met.

Haemon doesn’t agree with the death penalty Creon gave his wife, Antigone. Haemon thinks that his dad wont let go of his punishment because he wants to keep his pride for the state. Creon wants to seem big and tough for his country since he does need to prove himself to them for them to gain his trust. To try to get his point f view through to his father Haemon uses the Logos technique. Haemon explains why he is wrong, and why things shouldn’t be the way they are. “your temper terrifies them- everyone will tell you only what you like to hear” (lines 58-60) Haemon is attempting to focus his father on how everything really works around him because he doesn’t realize it yet.

Consuelo T 2 said...

In the play “Antigone” Creon and his son Haimon try to persuade each other by using persuasion techniques. There are 3 types of methods of persuasions such as ethos, pathos, and logos. Ethos is one method where the audience values what the speaker says because they have authority, and is dependable. Pathos influence your emotion and logos the logical method. In both speeches, Creon and Haimon use these methods to convince each others ideas. Creon is trying to convince Haimon that Antigone is a bad person for not obeying the law. However Haimon is trying to convince his dad that Antigone should not be punished for what she did, and that he should stop being stubborn.
In Creon’s speech he uses pathos, because he’s trying to persuade his son, by impacting his emotions. Creon is trying to convince Haimon that Atigone is corrupt. Creon says “…spit this girl out—she’s your enemy” (742). Creon is basically telling his son to forget about Antigone. Also, Creon calls Antigone an “enemy” because she disobeyed the law. Creon is also using ethos method of persuasion. Since he is king of the state, and is basically in control, Haimon must listen to his him. Also not to mention that it’s his father as well. The flaw that the speech could have is that since Creon is king, he is stubborn, and he might think that his opinions are right.
In Haimon’s Speech, he uses pathos in convincing his father. He uses unique and affecting language to make his father change his mind about Antigone. Haimon also wants his father to stop being so stubborn. Haimon says “…because they bend, even their twigs are safe, while stubborn trees are torn up...” (81-82). This is an example of pathos because he uses lively comparisons. He is trying to tell his father to admit that he is wrong (“bend”). He does this by comparing his father to a stubborn tree, which get torn up, and the tree that bends which is unharmed. Creon is too stubborn, and thinks he’s doing something right in killing Atigone. However, since Creon is so persistent, he is not affected by his speech.Creon and Haimon both made very good arguments by using the methods of persuasions. Haimon did a good job, using distinctive language to show his dad his stubbornness. Creon also made a good dispute, using ethos, and having the benefit of being the king, as well as being the father. However if only he would of listened to his son, before it was too late.
(i'm sorry one of my quote is from the online text and the other is from the book.)

Jessica F 2 said...

In “Antigone”, Creon and Haemon are trying to make the other listen to them. They use three different types of persuasion; logos, ethos, and pathos. Logos uses definitions and quotations to persuade others. Ethos uses correct grammar and appropriate level of vocabulary. Pathos uses vivid descriptions and emotional tone and examples. Creon and Haemon use all of these. Creon wants to be so powerful. He thinks he can control everything. When speaking to others, Creon treats them as a lower then him. Creon believed that Polyneices shouldn’t be buried because he wasn’t as responsible as Eteocles was. Although, some may say that Eteocles is wrong because he kept the kingdom for so long even though they agreed to share the thrown. Creon said that Eteocles was going to get a ceremony and everything and Polyneices was just going to be put out in a field for birds to eat. He set a law saying that any man who went to bury Polyneices would be killed. Antigone was brave enough as a woman to try and bury her brother. Creon decided he was going to stand by his word and kill his sons fiancé, Antigone. Haemon says that his father is wrong and shouldn’t kill Antigone. In the end, Creon changes but changes to late and everyone ends up dead.

Hillary D 2 said...

this might be a stupid question...do we go with the numbers in the brackets? or the other ones?

Lynn T. 4 said...

In order to get a point across and heard, persuasion is used. However it is not that basic, according to Aristotle, there are different modes of persuasion including Ethos, Pathos, and Logos. Creon and Haemon are arguing about the current dilemmas that have occurred in their city. Haemon is Creon’s son, and like father like son they are both very opinionated and are fighting to be heard. The three different modes of persuasion helps enhances an argument, and makes a point stronger.

Ethos is the idea of using authority to convey the audience. In Antigone by Sophocles, Creon uses his authority, his power, and position to make his point. Since he is Creon’s father, he is automatically wiser and smarter. He is king so everything he decides, every rule he makes is right. Creon uses his power as an excuse to not listen to anyone because since he is king he should not have to. He is pretentious, and brandishes his authority in everybody’s face. Haemon tells his father that,
"Because of who you are, you can't perceive
all the things men say or do—or their complaints.
Your gaze makes citizens afraid—they can’t
say anything you would not like to hear." (688-691)”
Haemon tells Creon that he can not consistently use his authority and age to control what he thinks, and what the city thinks. Haemon is actually using logos to make his point. Logos is a cognate; it uses logics to express an idea. It is an informed opinion, and Haemon is informing his father that he is older but that does not mean he can belittle anyone else. Haemon also uses logos when he tells his father that age does not matter.
He says that,
"For any man,
even if he’s wise, there’s nothing shameful
in learning many things, staying flexible." (710-712)
It is a fact that your age does not matter, if you are right. If you were wise you would know that you could still learn more. There is not one person in the world that knows absolutely everything, not even a king. He also uses logos to prove that not everybody agrees with his father. Although he is king, there are many ideas and opinions being stated behind his back. Haemon states as a fact that most people do not agree with Creon’s punishment for Antigone. He uses logos because he is giving his father actual facts and data from the people of the city.
Creon also attempts to use logos to make his point. He does not want Haemon to marry Antigone because she is a rebel, she had disobeyed him, and no women like that should marry his son. He states that women are below men in general. Creon’s tone when he says
"If we must fall from power, let that come
at some man’s hand—at least, we won’t be called
inferior to any woman." (678-680)
is affirmative. He is positive than men are better women and he makes it a fact. However his father tried to test his son’s loyalty by using pathos. Pathos is trying to get across an idea using emotional appeal. He tells Haemon that he is so glad to have him as a son because, that’s how [his] heart should always be resolved, to stand behind [his] father’s judgment on every issue." (638-641) He is saying that because he is his family, and his son, out of love and loyalty he should be behind his father despite morals. Creon also compares a loyal person to a solider during a thick battle, always having his fellow soldier’s back. However Haemon fights back with pathos. He says
"You notice how in winter floods the trees
which bend before the storm preserve their twigs.
The ones who stand against it are destroyed,
root and branch. In the same way, those sailors
who keep their sails stretched tight, never easing off,
make their ship capsize—and from that point on
sail with their rowing benches all submerged.
So end your anger. Permit yourself to change." (807-813)
He is using metaphors to tell his father that some things can not be changed. There are things that happen in nature, and you have to let it be and to just let it go. Haemon is telling his father he has to change and see other perspectives. There are many different techniques that are used in this argument.

Jillian D 2 said...

The three types of persuasion are ethos, logos, and pathos. Logos is an appeal based on logic or reason, which is distributed by companies or corporations. Pathos is based on emotion. Ethos is based on the character or speaker. It is the approach in which the audience has to trust the speaker and all of the information given. When used sucessfully, they can all be very goods things and will work to the full extent. In Sophocles’ Antigone, Creon and his son Haimon try to persuade each other. They are stubborn and neither of them can be wrong. Creon, being the guy that he is, believes that Antigone should be killed because she broke the law, but Haimon thought that she shouldn’t be punished. Haimon also thinks that his dad would be “an excellent king/ but in a desert.”(738/739), that upsets Creon to the point that Creon thinks that Haimon is “fighting on the woman’s side.”(741). They are persuading each other by giving there points to each other and almost pulling them along, but that doesn’t seem to work because with that they fight with each other even more. Creon’s speech used the pathos technique when he was talking to Haimon. He was toying with his emotions telling him that he wasn’t the right way a son should be. Haimon is mad that his father won’t allow him to get married. Haimon’s argument is that “[He’ll] not consider any marriage a greater benefit than [his] fine leadership.” (722/723/724), but Haimon still wants to be able to get married, even if his father won’t let him. Haimon is trying really hard to persuade his father to allow him to marry. In this Haimon is using ethos to get his father to do what he wants. The way he uses it is that he wants the readers to see how he can be trustworthy. Haimon is a trust worthy character because he is the next blood in throne, so he has to be trustworthy. These types of persuasion are used thought the story very successfully; with everything combined the reader sees how the two that are fighting are trying to persuade each other. Although it doesn’t work in this scene, later on in the story, Haimon works and finally gets his father to feel guilty about everything and gets Antigone to be freed, but this is a tragedy so everyone knows how those end.

Mat M. 4 said...

Creon and Haemon in the Greek play “Antigone” display the three forms of persuasion in a speech between each other. Proposed by Aristotle, they are ethos, pathos, and logos also known as rhetoric techniques. Haemon displays the technique of ethos that is to appeal to expertise and to generally compliment someone. He begins by talking to his father Creon about how loyal he is to him and agrees with the judgments he has made. Haemon appeals to Creon’s expertise by not considering that “any marriage a greater benefit than [his] fine friendship” (line 723-725). Haemons objective is to persuade his father that he is loyal to his father despite sentencing his bride, Antigone, to death. The purpose is to make Creon comfortable and more susceptible to get him to side with him even further. The rhetoric technique of logos is displayed when Creon is stating that every citizen no matter the circumstances must obey the law. Logos is to persuade one with logical influence hence the name logo for logic. Creon believes that leadership is what holds a city together and that “there’s no greater evil” (line 763) with the lack of it. He as well tries to persuade Haemon that the lack of leadership “destroys whole cities, turns household into ruins” (line 764) and makes “soldiers break and run away” (line 765) in times of war. It displays how Creon strongly feels about his ideas and has the ability to persuade by using common knowledge and experience that Haemon may have. Pride of the city can overwhelm Creon and can sometimes get ahead of himself yet I agree with his argument toward Haemon. Another example of logos rhetoric is when Haemon is making his argument that fighting against something ends in your demise. Haemon logic is that sailors will capsize their ship if they “keep their sails stretched tight, never easing off” in a deadly storm. This argument makes sense because it appeals to Creon in that he is not someone who goes down without conflict. Haemon tries to persuade him otherwise to realize that imprisoning Antigone will solve nothing. However, in this lengthy speech little evidence of pathos, persuasion with emotion, is evident. The reason is that to attempt to persuade with emotional influence would be ineffective between two intellectual people like Creon and Haemon and only logic and complimenting would have an affect to persuade each other. Despite using the rhetoric and persuading Creon to see Haemons way, he is too late to save Antigone from death.

sandy j 2 said...

There are three types of persuasion modes, ethos, logos and pathos. There is one that relates mostly to the text Antigone and that’s pathos. The argument between Haimon and creon was more based on emotions due to their relationship. Haimon loves his father, and that’s why he wants him to change the way he is. His father always thinks that he’s right and he puts honor and loyalty in front of everything else. Haimon knows there are more important things in life than honor and having pride. He proves this when he’s arguing with his father about Antigone. He tells him in lines 53 ‘To warn me against losing mine. I cannot say- I hope that I shall never want to say!-that you have reasoned badly.’ Haimon thinks highly of Antigone because of what she died for her brother. She’s trying to persuade her father that she’s a good person, and he’s wrong about her. He’s only juging her because he thinks that Polynieces shouldn’t have been buried because he considers him a coward. He also doesn’t like the fact that she’s a woman, she has certain roles and there’s just things that she shouldn’t do or be involved in. I agree with Haimon because Creon is wrong about Antigone. She’s a brave woman who stands up fpr what she believes in. Her strength has to with feminine power, obviously there wasn’t a lot of that in that time era. Creon is a sexist, and he thinks very low of women. Haimon admires Antigone for her actions, he’s trying to make his father see her in a positive way.

A flaw of Haimon’s is being too proud. He thinks he’s always right and he cosidres himself god. Haimon loves power and being in control of everybody and everything around him. Haimon’s thought about this is more related to logos, because someone shouldn’t be that way. Haimon said ‘ you are not in a position to know everything that people say or do, or what they feel: Your temper terrifies them-everyone will tell you only what you like to hear.’ It’s absurd to know everything people know or feel, but Creon thinks he’s above the average man, and he can do exactly that. Creon’s persuasion towards Haimon is logos. Creon expressed his thoughts to Haimon, he said ‘The man who knows how to obey, and that man only, knows how to give commands when the time comes.’ Creon thinks it’s logic for men to obey and that will make them successful in life. He wants Haimon to see the benefits of power and being in charge. If he wants to do that, he has to follow his path. Creon also thinks that a woman should not take over his son’s thinking. In his opinion, women are only good for one thing, and one shouldn’t put them in a higher standard. That’s what he sees that’s logic, it’s the way it should be and for him, it’s the way it is.

Mr. Walsh said...

Hillary

We use paranthesis for line numbers and brackets when change language.

Mr. Walsh

Hillary D 2 said...

no, i meant in the text on the website. You said the speech was on lines 720-820 and on the website there are two sets of numbers, one of them in brackets.

Mr. Walsh said...

The one without brackets.

Sorry about that.

Good luck.

Elaine T 4 said...

According to Aristotle, there are three types of persuasion and they are ethos, pathos and logos. Ethos is persuasion using ones authority or status to sway the other person into trusting them. Pathos is persuasion that appeals to one’s emotions or values. Logos is persuasion that is based on logic and intellect. In scene 3 of Antigone by Sophocles, Haimon and Creon are arguing about Antigone’s death sentence and they’re both trying to persuade the other that they’re thought is the correct one.

Creon uses two types of persuasion methods during scene 3 to try to convince that sentencing Antigone to death was the right thing to do. Creon first uses ethos when he tells Haimon “[his] heart [should] be resolved, to stand by [his] father’s judgment on every issue.” (Lines 725-727) Creon is using his role as a father and as a king to try to persuade Haimon that what he’s doing to Antigone is the right thing and he should also agree with him. Moreover, Haimon’s mentioning of trusting his father’s “leadership” (Line 637) makes it easier for Creon to sway Haimon’s feelings about Antigone’s sentence. Creon also uses ethos when he tells Haimon that “[he] must obey whatever man the city puts in charge, no matter what the issue….”(Lines 760-763) Again, Creon is using his position as king to persuade Haimon that what he says and does is the right thing. He’s telling Haimon to trust him because he’s king and he knows what’s best for him. Creon also uses logos as a way of persuasion when he says “when men succeed, what keeps their lives secure in almost every case is their obedience.” (Lines 767-768) Creon is saying that when one obeys and does the right thing, they will succeed in life. Creon is implying that if Haimon lets Antigone have her punishment, in the end, he will be happy and successful like him and all will be well. Haimon in the midst of persuading his stubborn father, uses pathos to try to convince Creon that Antigone should not be punished. Haimon believes that “of all women, [she] least deserves the worst of deaths for her most glorious act.” (Lines 787-788) Haimon thinks that Antigone should live because she was only giving her brother his god-given rights to the afterlife and also because she was only doing what she believed was right too. Haimon believes that Antigone should not be punished for being heroic and for standing up to Creon.

In the feud between Creon and Haimon, both characters use the persuasive techniques of pathos, logos and ethos. Creon tries to persuade Haimon about Antigone’s punishment using logos and ethos because he feels that because he is king, and Haimon’s father he knows what’s best for Haimon. Haimon on the other hand uses pathos to try to get his father to feel bad about what he’s done and to have him rethink about his punishment for Antigone for she was only doing the right thing. Both father and son are fighting over Antigone’s punishment and existence and the readers can see that whether Antigone lives or dies, she will drive a ridge between this father son relationship. This can be connected to the idea of women having a large impact on men’s lives.

Jen-T 4 said...

According to Aristotle, rhetoric is "the ability, in each particular case, to see the available means of persuasion. There are 3 different types of rhetoric: Ethos, Logos, and Pathos. Ethos is an appeal to authority. Logos is an appeal to your intellect. Finally Pathos is an appeal to your emotions. In scene 3, Creon and Haimon argue there points and attempt to persuade one other while using different rhetoric techniques.
During the heated father-son debate, Creon uses more of the Ethos technique then Lagos and Pathos. He does this by telling his son what to do just because he is his father. He tells his son that he should be behind him and that he knows what he’s doing. “Indeed, my son, that’s how your heart should always be resolved, to stand behind your father’s judgment on every issue.”(730) Creon also uses the Pathos technique to try to make his son Haimon feel bad by saying, “You woman’s slave— don’t try to win me over.”(850) Creon is playing with Haimon’s emotions when he says this because he knows that Antigone is his wife-to-be and he cares a lot about her. So by saying this he is making him feel bad.
On the other hand Haimon like to use the Pathos technique. He does this by directing his arguments in an emotional way. “So end your anger. Permit yourself to change.”(810) Haimon makes his argument to try to attack his fathers’ emotions as he says “…end your anger…” (810) He also tries to threaten his father into letting Antigone go by saying “And as for you—your eyes will never see my face again.”(870) Haimon says this in the mists of him telling Creon that he will commit suicide if he doesn’t let Antigone go.
Both Creon and Haimon use different techniques to try and convince each other of there arguments and how they are really the correct one. Creon relies on both the Ethos technique which is the appeal to authority and the Pathos technique which is the appeal to emotions. Haimon however, chooses to also use the Pathos technique. Both father and sons heated debate is a key scene in the story and really puts things out in the open between them.

Ngoc D. 4 said...

Often in most speeches, the speaker uses a mixture of rhetoric techniques to create a powerful argument. There are three forms of rhetoric: Ethos, which is “an appeal to authority”; Pathos, which is “an appeal to emotions” and Logos, which is “an appeal to intellect”. In Scene 3 of “Antigone” by Sophocles, the characters of Creon and Haemon use a long speech lace with the three rhetoric techniques in order to persuade one another if Antigone is guilty or not guilty.

In his speech, Creon uses several rhetoric techniques to prove to Haemon that Antigone deserves her punishment. Although he does use several techniques, Creon mostly relies on Ethos to make his argument strong. In Thebes, Creon holds all of the power in his hands; he is the king after all. Though it is nonverbally, Creon is using Ethos. Furthermore, Haemon is Creon’s son and he must “stand behind [his] father’s judgment” (727). Here, Creon is also using Ethos, telling his son to listen to him because he is the father and his son must be “obedient” (728). Another technique Creon uses is Logos, he reason that the right thing to do is to take away Antigone’s life. His rationale is that she’s an “enemy” (741), that he “caught her clearly disobeying [the law] (743), and that she is “the only culprit in the entire city” (744). Creon also uses Pathos to describe a woman to persuade Haemon that a woman is “evil” (739) whose “embraces can turn freezing cold” (738). Creon effectively integrates the three forms of rhetoric together to create a powerful statement that men are in charge and must stand by his words.

Haemon, who believes that Antigone does not deserve her sentence, also uses the three techniques of rhetoric to convince his father otherwise. Unlike his father, who is the king and much older, Haemon does not rely on Ethos as much as his father does. Instead, he uses Pathos to try to soften his father’s expression, persuading him that Antigone did a “glorious act” (768). Haemon tries to show that Antigone did what she had to do when “her own brother died”, and could “not just leave him there unburied, to be ripped apart by carrion dogs or birds” (790-791). Haemon then asks “Surely she deserves some golden honour?” (792). The question that Haemon asks is an example of Pathos. Haemon also uses Logos and advises his father not to “let [his] mind dwell on just one thought, that what [he] say is right and nothing else” (799-800). Haemon does not have a high ranking his status like his father; however, he takes advantage of his knowledge and appears to be using Ethos also. Haemon uses metaphor, which is a form of Ethos, to compare his father to a tree and sailors. Haemon reasons that like a tree that “stand[s] against [the storm]” it risks the chance of getting “destroyed” (809) and like sailors who keeps their “sails stretched tight, never easing off” (811), will make “their ship capsize” (812); Creon will be “destroyed” (809) and “capsize” (811) if he doesn’t listen to other people. There are traces of Logos in here also because Haemon is telling Creon that the right thing to do is ease off and let Antigone live and to “end [his] anger” (814). Though Haemon is younger, he uses the rhetoric techniques to its fullest and makes a strong case.

Throughout the arguments between the father and son, Creon and Haemon use different techniques of rhetoric to persuade one another to see the situation differently. Ethos, Pathos, and Logos are clearly expressed in their speeches. Creon heavily relies on his status and uses Ethos to show that Antigone deserves her punishment. On the other hand, Haemon argues back and tries to persuade his father that Antigone is innocent. The bigger idea that is being express between Creon and Haemon is value. Creon clearly value the law over blood relative, and Haemon clearly states that he values Antigone over Creon.

Hillary D 2 said...

This speech in the play Antigone by the playwright Sophocles is Creon and Haimon’s persuasive arguments to each other. They use techniques to make their speeches stronger and more persuasive. There are three modes of persuasion, Ethos, Pathos, and Logos. They are used to both Haimon and Creon’s advantages because it helps show their side of the story.

Right in the beginning, Haimon is developing ethos by using formal, polite words. He is leading his father on to saying what he feels about the matter of Antigone’s death. Next, Creon goes into his lecture about his views on friendship, leadership, and women. He says, “—I’ll kill her,” and this shows a use of Pathos because of his hard emotion (746). He is persuading Haimon to believe that he always puts the State before anything else—even Antigone, a woman and blood relative. He would never want to be “inferior to any woman” and this shows his sexist side (773). Even though family is also important, he certainly stuck to his views on cautioned friendships. Because he is the new ruler of Thebes and because of his age, he believes in his responsibility to protect the people of his State. He would “trust such a man [(himself)] to govern wisely” because the State always comes first (753). Ethos comes into play in this quote because he is a notable figure telling Haimon about his knowledge. Overall, his speech was full of Ethos because he needed his position as a ruler to lean on, otherwise he would back his persuasion on nothing.

Haimon is still deeply in love with his beloved Antigone, but doesn’t show it to his father yet. He politely disagrees with Creon’s ideas because he “could not find [his] words somehow right” (778). Haimon knows about the city’s disagreements with Antigone’s death sentence. Logos is being used to persuade Creon to actually hear his people instead of governing them by what he thinks is best. Haimon warns his father not to “speak and think like no one else” because “when such men are exposed, then all can see their emptiness inside” (802-804). He uses Pathos by comparing Creon to an inflexible tree. He again warns his father of falling because of his dependence of his role as King. He believes in setting Antigone free because what she did was no crime, but just a noble gesture for her brother.

Overall, both had very powerful arguments because of their use of language and persuasive techniques. Creon’s argument, I believe, had a flaw. He always talked about the importance of being a good ruler to his State, but has he really done anything good for them? He believed he protected his people from bad people like Antigone, but he truly only did it for loyalty. Haimon’s speech was much more persuasive because of that. He used information from the city itself and gave good backup.

Malik B. 4 said...

According Aristotle, there are three prominent types of rhetoric; Ethos, Pathos, and Logos. Rhetoric is a persuasive form of writing that often is approached using different techniques. Ethos is an approach in which a person uses their reputation to support their argument. Logos is an attempt to relate to knowledge that society as a whole should have. The final common approach of rhetoric is Pathos which is meant to relate to the reader emotionally Both Haimon and Creon use these forms of rhetoric to more effectively express their feelings about one another.
As Creon and Haimon begin their heated discussion, Creon uses Pathos to convince his currently loyal son to remain that way. Creon expresses his ideal son to his to encourage him to not stray from obtaining those qualities. Creon warns Haimon, “A man who fathers useless children—what can one say of him except he’s bred troubles for himself.” (lines 732-734). With only thoughts of a “perfect” son and the threat of misfortune that any other kind of son would bring, Creon attempts to impose guilt onto his son to force him to become the son that all father’s dream of.
Using Logos, Haimon questions previous loyalty to his father to adopt his new view of being skeptical of his father’s decisions. Haimon probes, “Where’s the threat in challenging a bad decree?” (line 861). Both Haimon and Creon genuinely feel that at times as ruler of Thebes, Creon fails to realize his faults. After not being able to convince his father with other tactics, Haimon resorts to using logical means, or Logos.
Throughout “Antigone”, Creon has abused his power as ruler and imposed his beliefs onto others. Creon uses his reputation as an overbearing ruler to once again enforce his views on him. Creon’s imposition of ideas is an attempt of using Ethos to strengthen his opinions. Creon sternly asks, “ Are you so insolent you threaten me?” (line 860). As Haimon’s father and ruler of Thebes, Creon is appalled that he would disrespect him so greatly as to merely question his opinion. Both Creon and Haimon use rhetoric in its most common styles to more effectively deliver their ideas.

Katherine Z 4 said...

In the play Antigone the conversation between father and son involves three main types of persuasion: Logos, Ethos, and Pathos. Logos often involve logical reasoning, arguments that revolved around logical sense. Ethos appeal to the sense of trusting the advice of the person, a person that does not intend to do harm. Pathos involves the persuasion using emotional strategies like love, guilt, fear, or joy. In the arguments between Creon and Haimon they both used different types of persuasions to try to argue their point.
Haimon, Antigone’s fiancée, wants to be the kind of son that his father Creon would be proud of, however he cannot stand while his fiancée is being killed. He try to persuade Creon to release Antigone, he does by using Logos and Pathos. Haimon told Creon that “[he] has no right to trample in God’s right” (771) Burying a dead body is a routine in the land of Thebes, it’s only logical that Antigone would want to bury Polynices. However, Creon is deciding for himself that no one should be able to bury Polynices; he is not following the law of the God. Haimon is reminding his father that it’s not within his right to change the law of the God, they are almighty, and no one can challenge their law. Haimon also use the persuasion method of Pathos, he tries to use Creon’s love for his him. Haimon told Creon that since “[Antigone] must die [her] death will cause another” (771) Haimon is clearly hinting to his father that if Antigone must die then he will no longer be living. At least in death they will always be together. Haimon is using his father’s emotion against him; he wants to persuade his father to let Antigone go, if he does not want to lose his one and only son.
During the heated conversation between Creon and Haimon, Creon also uses many techniques of persuasion. Creon tries to make his son understand why Antigone must die, she had disobeyed his law, and she challenges his role as king. One persuasion that Creon uses against his son is Ethos. Creon told Haimon that “[he] has to stand behind [his] father’s judgment on every issue” (line 640) Creon tries to use his role as Haimon’s father to try to persuade Haimon that everything he does is for his own good. A father will never do anything to harm their son, his own flesh and blood. Creon also uses the technique of Logos. Creon told Haimon that “[he shouldn’t] ever throw good sense aside for pleasure, for some woman’s sake. He tries to advice his son that no women are worth throwing away your sense. Women and pleasure is not worth throwing everything aside for.
Both Creon and Haimon’s techniques of persuasion is strong, they both use effective reasoning for the other one to see the point that they’re trying to make. Haimon wants his father to see one cannot disobey the laws set by God, humans can only follow them. He also tries to threatened to kill himself is Antigone is gone. This proves to be a strong reasoning, if Haimon the last male of the throne is gone, who will ultimately take over the throne? The answer is no one; the kingdom will eventually land in the hands of an outsider. Creon also tries to use his role as father, to let Haimon see that everything that he does is for his own good. Creon, as Haimon’s father doesn’t want to see his son marrying a traitor to his country. What will the people of Thebes thinks of him, if he marries a traitor? He also tries to advice Haimon that nothing is ever worth throwing away one’s common sense, especially woman.

Jess L 2 said...

This dialogue between Creon and Haimon has Creon trying to convince Haimon that his views are right, and Haimon trying to convince Creon of the opposite. They both use different types of persuasive writing, though in different ways. Neither of their methods seem very effective, I guess stubbornness runs in the family.
Creon seems very fond of the athos method. He is really just trying to make Haimon guilty for disobeying and disagreeing with him. For example, when he says, "Indeed, my son, that’s how your heart should always be resolved, to stand behind your father’s judgment on every issue. That’s what men pray for— obedient children growing up at home who will pay back their father’s enemies, evil to them for evil done to him," it is very clear that he is just trying to shut Haimon up by making him feel bad for being disobedient. I assume Creon seems like the kind of person who doesn't think that anyone could have a valid reason for disagreeing with him.
Haimon also is using persuasion to try to get Creon to agree with him. He thinks Antigone doesn't deserve to die, because what she is doing is heroic and noble to honor a family member. Haimon uses a very polite tone at first and kind of sucks up to his father, because we all know the when you use flattery with a person, they will listen. This is a form of ethos, because by sucking up to his father, for example when he says, "For me, father, nothing is more valuable than your well being. For any children, what could be a greater honour to them
than their father’s thriving reputation?" he is also persuading his father that he is not opposing him, and that he is on his side. Haimon also includes a bit of logos to make him seem like a more believable persuader, like when he tells Creon that he heard civilians talking and saying that they think she did the right thing, so he is giving evidence that he is not the only one who has the opinion that what he did was wrong.
Overall, neither of the speeches made by Creon and Haimon worked very well when it comes to convincing each other, but the methods they used are used efficiently. Pathos, Logos, and Ethos - the three methods of persuasion - can be seen at some point in at least one, maybe both, of the speeches. The main point that they are each trying to get across is loyalty, althought they each are preeching loyalty to different things. Creon believes in loyalty to his people and State, while Haimon thinks that loyalty to family and the gods is more important.

Cristina V 2 said...

There are three different types of persuasion techniques. They include ethos, pathos, and logos. Ethos is the appeal to authority; this tells the audience that the character is qualified to speak on that particular subject. Pathos is a passionate delivery that appeals to the audience’s emotions. Logos is a logical appeal; it is usually used to support the topic that the speaker is trying to get across.

Ethos and Pathos are both used in the Greek play Antigone, written by Sophacles. In this scene, Creon and his son Haimon are arguing about Antigone’s punishment. Creon feels that Antigone should be put to death while Haimon feels “she deserves some golden honour 792)” for her “most glorious act. (788)” Through the persuasion mode of pathos, Antigone is seen as an innocent character, to Haimon anyway. Throughout this speech between Creon and Haimon the persuasion technique used the most is ethos. One example of ethos is when Creon says, “We must obey whatever man the city puts in charge, no matter what the issue-great or small, just or unjust. (760-764)” Creon takes advantage of his role as king and his authority over the people of Thebes, he says mostly whatever he wants and does not really care what others think. Also, Creon uses ethos in a very sexist sort of way when he tell Haimon, “Never let some woman beat us down. If we must fall from power, let that come at some man’s hand-at least, we won’t be called inferior to any woman.” He said this to Haimon as if he agrees with his father.

Another argument that takes place in the story is Haimon trying to persuade Creon into allowing him to marry Antigone. Haimon tries to persuade Creon by telling him “[He will] not consider any marriage a greater benefit than your fine leadership. (722-724)” Creon tells Haimon “[not to] ever throw good sense aside for pleasure, for some woman’s sake. You understand how such embraces can turn freezing cold when an evil woman shares your life at home. (734-736)” Both of these arguments are forms of logos because they are both trying to support their side and persuade the other that he is right. Throughout the play, many different issues are addressed that need persuading one way or another, including Creon’s rule, Antigone’s punishment, and Haimon and Antigone’s marriage.

Jillann C 2 said...

In the play, “Antigone”, by Sophocles, there are three different modes of persuasion that are used throughout the play. The three known modes are Ethos, Logos, and Pathos. Each of these modes of Persuasion is based on different things. Ethos is based on the character of the speaker. Logos is based on logic or reason. Finally, Pathos is based on emotion. The play demonstrates each of these modes of persuasion when the king, Creon and his son, Haimon have disputes among what is best for him.

When looking back on the play, Ethos is used in multiple sections. When Creon rants on how he loves how he thinks Haimon is going to be “attentive and dutiful in his house” (14) he tells his son that “this is what a man prays for” (13) since he believes that all fathers want their son’s to follow their lead in life and accomplish what their fathers set out for them to do. He loves the fact that Haimon is now, “hating his father’s enemies, / honoring his father’s friends” (15-16), because since Creon is king, he wants his son to have the same political and social beliefs that he has about various issues. The irony in the part shows that Creon really does not know his son and his personal beliefs because we as the audience already inferred that Haimon wants to marry Antigone since he loves her and wants to stand by his side. Haimon believes that he’d be most happy in the future marrying the love of his life, Antigone, instead of following his father’s plans. The Ethos in the section of the play shows that Creon is a conceited ruler and doesn’t realize that his son, Haimon doesn’t necessarily want to do everything his father wants him to do. Creon doesn’t notice how against his son is at this particular time of doing everything in his father’s foot steps.

When looking at the mode of persuasion of Logos, it appears to have occurred numerous times in the text as well. Haimon finally confronts his father that he does not want to follow his father’s wishes and that he wants to marry Antigone, he begs his father to, “not be unchangeable” (73) because since Creon is king, he believes he is always right, regardless of the circumstances. Haimon reminds him that though he is king, he cannot, ‘believe that you alone can be right” (74) because being king doesn’t automatically make the person right in every situation. Logos appears in this particular text because Creon believes out of his own logic that since he is king that gives him the right to have the correct answers for everything. With Creon’s poor logic that basically says that the world revolves around him it’s clear that Creon has much to learn in the near future.

The last mode of persuasion deals with Pathos and to prove that it exists in the text of, “Antigone”, Haimon clearly addresses it when getting into the depth of Haimon’s argument with Creon about whether to kill Antigone. Throughout the play, Haimon has not truly spoken his mind until this instance when he exclaims that Antigone, “will not die here” (132) because Haimon loves her and wants to spend the rest of his life with her. He then tries to threaten his father, “you will never see my face again”, (133) but clearly that did not work because of the irony in this scene since we know that Antigone will end up dead. Pathos obviously exists in this section of the play because of the emotion that jumps off the page from Haimon feeling so strongly about not letting his father prosecute Antigone.

Throughout the intense play of, “Antigone”, there have been multiple places where the modes of persuasion have developed and played a major role in creating the tragedy. If it wasn’t for Ethos, Logos, or Pathos, the play wouldn’t have reached its highest potential.

::HebaK:: 4 said...

Scene three in the play “Antigone” displays two types of persuasion technique. A persuasion is a demonstration. There are three major modes of persuasion; ethos, pathos, and logos. Pathos and Ethos are represented while the characters, Haimon and Creon speak to each other. “Pathos is an appeal to the audience’s emotions.” (wikipedia.com) In percussive argument the person will be using emotional tones and examples. When the rhetoric device, pathos is used the narrator will have a powerful persuasion on their side. Ethos, the other type of persuasion being used, is an appeal to authority; thinking that one is an expert. When someone is using ethos they refer to a persons character. Creon, Haimons father, declares that sons are “attentive and dutiful in his house, each one hating his fathers enemies, Honoring his fathers friends.”(Lines 14-16) Creon believes Haimon was the son he thought he would be, however Haimon does not me his expectations. He believes that Creon, the king of Thebes has made a wrong decision because of his humility. Both father and son try to persuade each other that they, themselves, are correct.

Having sympathetic pity for his father and for his love for Antigone, Haimon tries to persuade Creon to release Antigone. He believes that Creons modesty is overpowering his thought. He begs him to “not be unchangeable”(73) and “not believe that [he] alone can be right”(74) Again, Creon is blinded by his authority and power. He cannot accept the truth, that he made a decision. Creon still continues his persuasive argument. He does not “consider it right for a man of [his] years and experience” (94-95) to learn from and listen to a mere boy. Creon uses ethos to win the persuasion. He knows that he will not be expected to listen to his son because he is the king of Thebes and can do whatever he wishes. He brings up Haimons age and his own characteristics. Haimon uses pathos; this is visible because he refers to a matter that is unjust. He shows emotion and feelings in his demonstration; he demonstrates this by showing his love for Antigone and his care for his father in the given passage. Both characters have their own way of presenting their thoughts, however they both have flaws. Creons excessive pride and modesty is his flaw; unlike Haimon. Haimon shows too much emotion on his side, he is too emotional. These flaws bring out the greater ideas in the text. Haimons death/tragedy is foreshadowed by his melodramatic attitude. Creons tragedy is also foreshadowed; his pride and integrity is his tragic flaw which will be the cause of his tragedy.

Herman T 2 said...

There are three types of persuasive techniques. The three types are known as, logos, logos is a logical approach that appeals to logic. Ethos is an approach in which the audience believes the speaker along with the information provided. Pathos the last persuasive technique in which it relies on an emotional approach that can evoke emotional responses. The characters in Antigone, by Sophocles try to convince each other with their own beliefs.
Creon, the tragic hero of Antigone wants to convince his son, Haemon that Antigone is an evil woman that deserves whatever she is sentenced with. Creon says that if he, himself “fathers useless children” then he can expect “he’s bred troubles for himself” (Line 732-734). Creon is convincing us using logos. To demonstrate the logic behind this, Creon says that if he fathers children that are useless to him then he can expect to be bothered by impediments. Creon also, uses ethos as a persuasive technique because right after he utilizes logos, Creon convinces Haimom that he should never “throw good sense aside for pleasure, for some women’s sake.” Ethos is used because we can believe that what Creon says is right because Haemon was convinced by Creon when Haemon said, “Father, I’m yours. For me your judgments and the ways you act on them are good-I shall follow them. I’ll not consider any marriage greater benefit than your fine leadership.” Since Haemon convinced his father that he is on his side, Creon states that he is right about persuading Haemon to let Antigone die and don’t try anything stupid like throwing aside good sense for a wretched woman like Antigone. Creon also convinces the audience to be in his favor by persuading them with his ethos.
Creon tries to convince Haemon multiple times to let Antigone serve her death sentence because Creon doesn’t want his pride to be tarnished. Creon tries to protect is pride by separating Antigone and Haemon so that Creon’s family has no traitor in which Creon would be proud because Creon is too obsessed with his title of King.
The main idea of the story is pride because pride shows up from the beginning of the story till the end. Pride was seen when Antigone tried to bury her brother’s body. Creon showed a huge sense of pride with his new throne and power by punishing Antigone and gaining loyalty from his subjects. Creon is so obsessed with pride that he was blinded from the truth and that blindness was his flaw. That flaw, which came from pride, made him the biggest victim.

Martin D 2 said...

In a work of literature, characters can persuade each other to think a certain way, using specific techniques. These techniques are identified as the forms of rhetoric, which is the art of speaking or writing effectively, Ethos, Logos, and Pathos. Examples of these persuasion methods can be found in Antigone, the play by Sophocles, where Haimon argues about the condemnation of Antigone, his fiancée. Creon uses Ethos as Haimon uses Logos and Pathos in getting their points across to one another.
Ethos is an appeal to authority. Creon, who is the king of Thebes, boasts his great power. All of the people of Thebes must act upon his command,, including Haimon, since he is his father. Creon’s seniority is deserving of Haimon’s respect and is “to stand behind [Creon’s] judgment on every issue” (728). Creon also says that the people “must obey whatever man the city puts in charge” (761), in which he will not tolerate with any defiance.
Logos is an appeal based on logic or reason and Pathos relates to emotions. Haimon acknowledges Creon’s words, but doesn’t not agree with every decision that his father declares. Haimon tells Creon that it is great for any kid who has a father with a “thriving reputation” (797), although it is not wise for him to let his “mind dwell on just one thought” (799) and being close-minded. In saying this, Haimon is advising Creon to learn from his mistakes and to not be rash with the choices that he makes, which affects the people around him. Since the Thebans are “upset about [Antigone]” (786) and her unjust fate.
In the end, Haimon failed to convince Creon to alter his views. This scene reveals Creons tragic flaw. He is very egotistical and perceives everything within his own qualifications for law, which should be obeyed at all costs, since there is no reasoning with him. In addition to that, Creon still cannot differentiates between what he believes is the right thing to do and what must actually be done, which would have beneficial result.

Kim C 2 said...

Creon and Haimon both argue over Antigone’s actions and principles. Creon feels that Antigone needs to take responsibility of her foolish actions while Haimon believes that Antigone had done the right thing in doing “her most glorious act” (787). Even “when in the slaughter her own brother died, she did not just leave him there unburied, to be ripped apart by carrion dogs or birds” (789-791). Haimon tried to express to Creon that Antigone done everything to pay her respect to her loved brother. Haimon uses pathos to persuade emotionally, where Antigone’s actions are expressed in an honor perspective.
Creon dislikes Antigone for “disobeying the only culprit in the entire city” (744) and going against his sayings. He says to Haimon where Antigone will be the “evil woman” who “shares [his] life at home” and that she’s only a “false friend” who is “[his] enemy” (739-741). Creon also uses pathos where he used some figurative language to describe Antigone. Creon speaks of Antigone to disrupt Haimon’s mind and to wreck Haimon’s feelings for Antigone.
Creon’s speech of Antigone was more of his own opinions where as Haimon’s speech of Antigone seem more as a fact rather than opinion. Haimon’s speech came more into effect than Creon’s. Creon came to the point where he was persuaded that Antigone may not be as wrong as he may think.

nashally t 2 said...

In Antigone by Sophocles, Haimon and Creon argue over the decision Creon is deciding to make over how to punish Antigone. What Haimon is trying to get Creon to realize is that without Antigone, there will be no him. What Creon is trying to get Haimon to realize is that he is Ruler, and he gets to choose whatever punishment he thinks Anitgone deserves for going against his word.The persuade eachother using 3 different techiniques: Logos, Ethos, and Pathos. Logos is when you are arguing, but in a more logical way. Ethos refers to when you we believe that the speaker isnt trying to do us any harm and that way we are more willing to listen to what they have to say. Pathos is when you take a claim based on how it makes you feel but you dont know what to expect behind believing that. This arguement between them focuses more on Pathos. since Creon and Haimon are father and son, them arguing is effecting them family wise. So therer is more emotions involved then anything else. Haimon says to Creon that "[he] is your son, father. [Creon] are my guide...No marriage means more to [him] than your continuing wisdom" (lines 8-10). Haimon is trying to get Creon to realize that in any other discussion or arguement Creons word would be more powerful to him. Haimon tries to get his father to agree with him on listening to Haimon because the punishment he is giving to Antigone isn't fair and that "if [he is] young, and right, what does [his] age matter"(lines 97-98). Creon then tries to say he is his father and that he shouldn't disobey and argue with his word. Also Creon says that Anitgone is a criminal and deserves what she gets for breaking his word. Although they are arguing and things will be said Haimon still has respect for his father and says that if he "was not [his] father" then that he would say he was "preverse" (line 25). If Creon decides tog o with what he feels is right instead of what is right then he will lose a son which is very hard to lose emotionally. Haimon will not have respect for him afterwards for not listening to his son and letting his own sons wife live with him happily ever after.

laura b said...

Antigone, by Sophocles, has many great examples of what the great philosopher Aristotle refers to as the art of rhetoric. In scene three, the men have a war of words where each tries to convince the other that he is right about Antigone’s fate. In this debate, father and son use many persuasive techniques, specifically pathos, the emotional angle, and Logos, the use of logic, to make their points.

Haimon is trying to be convinced by his father that the only option for him is that Antigone should be deadly punished for her betrayal of the laws. As Creon speaks, his son Haimon employs the style of pathos using persuasive words that involve his feelings and emotions. Creon says at loud “this boy, it seems, has sold out to a women” indicating that he is choosing a women over his father and ultimately his country.
Haimon also draws on the emotional argument by telling his father “I am your son”(line 8)therefore showing his father that they have a blood relationship and essentially this bond should be stronger that any other bond he has.

Logos, using logic to prove a point is used throughout the Third scene. Creon takes enormous pride in his status of king, which leads him to question his son “do you want me to show myself weak before the people?”(25) Creon who thinks it is logic to him that people should not see the king as a weak ruler . it makes logical sense to him that the people should not see him retract his decision but to see him enforce the law. Haimos also applies the logo technique by telling creon “she covered her brother;s body”and asking “is she indecent? She kept from dogs and vultures. Is this a crime?” Haimon is using logos to logical explain to Creon that Antigone disobeyed his rules but never went against gods order therefore her act can be seen as excusable. This argument, though, logical, is flawed because it is directed to Creon who sees loyalty to country as being the most valuable quality.

Creon and Haimon both make valid points in their long disagreement. Unfortunately for both men, both ego and ideology get in the way of any resolution. Antigone’s fate remains the same and Creon loses more than just the argument, both also his son and wife in the end.

Ashley N. 4 said...

There are three common persuasion techniques: pathos, an emotional appeal; logos, a logical appeal; and ethos, the expertise appeal. The characters, King Creon and Haimon, from the Greek play Antigone, by Sophocles combine these three techniques in a dispute between the two about Haimon's fiancée and Creon's niece, Antigone.
Creon believes that Antigone is an immoral person who deserves the punishment he has demanded of her. Several times, as he's trying to convince Haimon to see like he does, he uses descriptive words to persuade his son, which is playing to the persuasive technique of pathos. He calls Antigone an "evil woman," and a "false friend" who's gender's embrace is "freezing cold." Creon also incorporates logos into his pathos-powered argument, stating that his opponents will “[destroy] whole cities, [turn] households into ruins, and in war [make] soldier’s break and run away.” Although this is slightly true, it still is an exaggerated truth, so that more emotion would be evoked.
Haimon's goal in the argument is to convince his father to swallow his pride and see his wrong doings. He also uses the technique of pathos persuasion. Haimon declares Antigone's nobility towards her family who will not let her brother's body be "ripped apart by carrion dogs or birds." He also compares his father to a sturdy tree that will fall in a large storm, whereas a pliable tree will go with the wind. What Haimon is trying to say by that is that, his father should be more flexible, and he will more likely not fail as his duties as king. Also, he is using logos in his argument. Haimon says that if Creon does not learn from his mistakes, it will have a negative effect with his allies and citizens. The Thebans are already, “upset about [Antigone]” and her fate, and if he does not correct his mistake, they will rebel against him. Haimon’s argument is less exaggerated and more thought out, which makes it easier to believe.
Their speeches are effective, but Haimon's is more effective because he focuses on one technique, whereas Creon spreads his apart, and they are over exaggerated.

henry d:2 said...

When arguing persuasively, there are several ways to appeal the audience. The several ways to appeal the audience are Logos, Ethos, and Pathos. Logos is to appeal towards intellect. Ethos is to appealing towards the audience for it gives trustworthiness from the speaker and the information they provide. Pathos appeals the audience using emotions. These 3 ways to appeal an audience are used in Antigone, Act 3. Creon and Haimon argue persuasively convincing each other using Logos, Ethos, and Pathos.

Logos is appeal towards logic and intellect. Creon attacks Haimon for Antigone, “has had contempt for my law and broken it.” Logic is expressed here for Creon convinces Haimon his actions with Antigone were right for she is a villain and all villain must be treated with prosecution. It also shows how Antigone is bad person for she would break a law, which justifies his resentment towards their marriage. Haimon questions Creon about age and maturity by giving Creon the question “what does my age matter,” (Line 96) if he is “young and right?” (Line 96) Logos is used to convince Creon for it is logical you can be wise regardless of age. Haimon also proves people can be flexible for “the reasonable thing is to learn from those who can teach.” (Line 91) This shows stubborn Creon that learning may be still required regardless of age, for no one “alone can be right.” (Line 74)

Ethos is to appeal towards authority. Abusing his status as king, Creon, achieves Ethos to Haimon for “whoever is chose to govern should be obeyed-must be obeyed, in all things great and small.” This shows his King status and it is used to convince Haimon that Creon’s actions were correct due to his authority. Creon also uses his fatherly figure against Haimon, for a father would have a son’s best interest at heart, and in turn they should return the favor. This persuasiveness goes both ways for Haimon explains to Creon that “I am your son, father. You are my guide. You make things clear for me and I obey you.” (Lines 9-10) Wither it may be flattery it convinces Creon that Haimon would do no harm to him for he has is his son.

Pathos is to appeal emotions. Haimon uses this to justify Antigone’s actions, “She convered her brother’s body. Is this indecent? She kept him from dogs and vulture. Is this a crime? Death? --She should have all the honor that we can give her!” (Line 65-68) Haimon sways Creon with sympathy by convincing Antigone’s actions weren’t indecent or a crime, with rhetorical questions. Haimon explains it was merely an generous act for a family member, and it was a god-given right that no man should defy god on wither someone should be buried or not.

Creon and Haimon persuasion were effective for they used Pathos, Ethos, and Logos. Incorporating all 3 styles, they effectively convince different crowds. A larger idea that was expressed was Pride. Creon having too much pride for his mistakes, avoids to correct them and abuses his status as king to justify it. Creon also addresses the topic of women and how we must not lose, this shows he has pride for his gender. Haimon having a overly abundant amount of pride, doesn’t accept Creon’s advice. Being stubborn is a flaw for it shows a one way argument with no sense of compromise.

DAvid T 2 said...

When two parties have an argument, each side tries to persuade the other into believing in what they strongly believe. There are three techniques to use in a persuasive argument. The techniques are ethos, which demonstrates the audience’s trust on the information given and the speaker, pathos, an approach to the audience’s emotions, and logos, the technique using logic. By using these techniques, you could end up with a very persuasive argument. In “Antigone” by Sophocles, Creon, king of Thebes, and his son, Haimon, have a very long winded argument about what they should do with Creon’s niece and Haimon’s fiancé, Antigone.
Creon had the use of logos and a hint of ethos in his argument. Creon tries to convince Haimon that Antigone is a traitor and deserves to be punished for breaking his laws. Creon tells Haimon that Antigone is “the only [one]” that “has had contempt for [his] law and broken it.” He should be listened to and followed for he is the one “giving orders in [the] city.” Out of all the people in the city, Antigone is the only one that had broken his rules. This was the era when women were beneath men. Creon could not have just ignored Antigone’s actions. If he let Antigone go unharmed after breaking his laws, it would have given the people some thought that Creon was “weak” to be out powered by a woman. He could not have let that happen.
With Haimon’s argument, there was the use of ethos and pathos. Haimon tries to let Creon know that Creon is being “stubborn” and that Creon is ignorant. He tells Creon that he is blind to the truth and that he does not “know everything.” The people in the city only “[tells Creon] what [he would] like to hear.” Haimon tries to give Creon some advice but Creon refuses Haimon saying that he does not want “to go to school to a boy.” Haimon then tells Creon that “if [he is] young, and right, what does [his] age matter?” Creon does not want to listen to Haimon. Haimon tries to let Creon know that no one in the country is going to approve of him killing Antigone. They only tell him what he wants to hear because they “fear” him. Haimon yells at Creon telling him that he has “no right to trample on God’s right.” He tries to convince Creon with every bit of his existence that killing Antigone is the wrong choice. He tries dearly to save her.
Although one may think that they are right, one should always consider what the other is saying. In both arguments, the use of more than one persuasive technique is present. It makes for an effective and persuasive argument. But, in Creon’s argument, he cares more about himself and how other people will see him in Antigone’s death rather than trying to help out his own family, but then again, he is putting his country first as was stated in his speech when he was declared king of Thebes, while Haimon cares more about his love life rather than his father and the good of the country. The arguments teach a lesson to people who think that they are always right and are more superior.

barbara j 2 said...

In the play Antigone by Sophocles, Creon and Haimon, father and son, tries to persuade each other that they are right. Creon tries to convince Haimon that Antigone has done wrong to the State and that she must pay the consequences. At this moment one of the types of persuasion Creon was using was logos where he was giving out reasons of why she must die.
Haimon who is in love with Antigone but loyal to his father at the same time tries to convince his father that she meant any harm but that she wanted to honor her brother by burying him. At this moment Haimon is using the pathos persuasion. He tries to be emotional about it. He tells his father that she loved her brother and she did what she thought was right. Haimon is really loyal to his father but he knows that what he is about to do would be a big mistake and he wants tries to convince him before it is too late.
There comes Creon flaw. He thinks that Haimon has no right to tell him what is right or wrong since he is the young one here. He also thinks that he is right which makes him a stubborn king. Even after his son told him that people were saying that she should be honored for what she has done, he still refuse to listen and wanted her to die. But Haimon threatened his father saying that her death would cause another one. Creon’s response was that he was acting foolish.
Even after this long conversation between father and son, neither of them persuaded each other that they were wrong. It wasn’t until after when that blind man came and talk to him about how hard headed he was and that his stubborn head would cause him calamity that Haimon finally wanted to change his order but it was too late.