Intellectual Musings of Mr. Walsh's Two Sophomore English Classes.
I finished reading the section! I like Charlie's voice (the way he talks). I also like his simplistic and innocent views. You don't see much of that anymore... I felt sad for the person in the poem. His life just went downhill.
well. I guess you can say he's innocent, but i really just see him as really disturbed. Actually. i can say he seems pretty innocent. everything seems so new to him. Do you guys like it so far? i think it's pretty interesting
I finished the chapters too. So far the book is pretty interesting. I agree with both Chloe and David. The poem was interesting. The person's life just crashed, like Chloe said his life went downhill. I agree with David the guy does seem pretty innocent.
i haven't really gotten as far as the rest of you but i absolutely love this book so far! some of the things in here are kinda of out there but they are good. what did you guys think of charlie finding out he witnessed someone getting raped and had no idea?
Well, Charlie is still a very innocent person. He's like a blank page and just observes and records everything. I feel like I can sort of connect to Charlie. Have you guys wondered who Charlie is writing to? He's writing events as they happen. What was his life like before? He was confused in the first letter he wrote, and now his life is getting more disturbed.
I have a feeling Mr. Walsh is trying to push on the "coming of age" cirriculum onto us. Frankly, I'm amazed at how Charlie manages to remain simple (as opposed to complex or confusing) after all he has been through, ie. his Aunt Helen dying, having a gay friend, unrequited love, walking in on his sister, etc.
I wonder if anyone had noticed before in the earlier pages of the book when he talks about his Aunt Helen, but when i was reading it, I thought about what Charlie was saying and my inferences made me think that Charlie's family was kind of messed up.
I tend to stereotype that a lot of families are like this. What went wrong with Helen? Did you notice how nobody in the family cares much about each other? It was only when Charlie's brother was on the TV that they stopped fighting.
I remember Charlie saying that his parents leave him alone because he seems to be doing good in school. Well, about his Aunt Helen; I made connections from his words and thought that he unknowingly had a relationship with her. On page 7, Charlie talks about how Michael and Susan were "'going out'" and that they had 'kissed and talked about movies...because he was her best friend." I figured that "best friend" means like they are a couple, because how often do you really see a guy and a girl holding hands and kissing and saying they're just best friends? Then, Charlie says, "...boys and girls normally weren't best friends [at] my school. But [they] were. Kind of like my Aunt Helen and me." So, looking at that I thought that maybe Aunt Helen and Charlie was having a "thing" going on when he was little.
Chloe, you are uncovered my evil plan (MWAHAHAHA). Well, the truth is, you are taking 10th grade english with a teacher, who is currently writing a coming-of-age novel, so it is to be expected, but perhaps loathed.
Sorry Mr. Walsh, but I had to exceed the 10 line limit.
I always just thought that Helen was an older version of Charlie. They both were A+ students and they talked about books together. But then she went through some hard times (with her husband) and she died. I thought that Charlie related himself to her and subconciously thought he would end up like her. (dead)PS. My 10th grade English teacher, it seems, is plotting something for his poor innocent students. Whatever shall we do?
So. What do you guys think is going on in Charlie's life?
I feel bad for charlie witnessing a rape because now he will have to live with that forever. I agree with David and that when Aunt Helen came into the book and how his life now is not the best. However so far I think that the book is very intersting.
i really like the way david describes charlie. "He's like a blank page and just observes and records everything." I feel really bad for everything Charlie goes through with everything. And yes i did notice to that no one in the family really cares about the other.. like Aunt Helen went through something and now sh'es dead and no one cares? and also i did think about the person charlie is writing to. Everything huge that comes up and happens to Charlie makes me think "omg this poor person reading this letter must think this child is wacked!" What do you think is going to happen with the whole Patrick Brad thing?
I actually like this book a lot, which is strange because it really takes a lot for a book to interest me. I think the way it is written is awesome, its kinda strange because its just a series of letters, and there are no responses, and this kind of leads me to question why he keeps writing if nobody is writing back... I like the way he writes as well, i can almost even hear his voice, i can just imagine his tone and the way he would sound.I'm curious, does anybody know how old Charlie is? I'm not sure if he said it and i overlooked it, but i really would like it clarified.
I'm not too sure how old charlie is? I thought I read that he was somewhere in his teens, but I could be wrong. Charlie finally tells the story about his aunt Helen. When he said that she was molested by a family friend, what comes out of the story is that it is hard to trust everyone, even a close friend. Do you think that the poem from pgs. 70-73 is anything like Charlie's life?
What do you guys think about Charile and Mary-Elizabeth? Do you think that he should have been honest with her from the beginning?
Near the beginning,Charlie mentions that her is writing the letters because he is starting high school. During that time, Bill was his teacher. Since he still has Bill as a teacher, I assumed he was 14-15.I don't like Mary-Elizabeth. She such a feminist.
i really like the letter thing too. It makes the book more interesting. Even though i'm always wondering about this other person. There are never any letters back. I kind of think its weird though that Charlie tells this other person so much. I kind of have a feeling he knows this person but this person doesnt know him or something weird like that.
I agree with your notion that Charlie does know the person he's writing the letter to, but I don't think he actually knows her personally. I think he just knows who she is, like a friend of a friend. I hope that eventually we get insight into the reader, and find out who he/she (i'm pretty sure he said it was a girl) is, and why Charlie chose to write to this person. There has to be a reason he chose this specific person, I mean, he's putting his whole life on these pages. You don't do that for just anyone.
I just finished the reading for the meeting tomorrow, and i've decided that my most hated character in the whole book is Charlie's sister. shes really mean, and thinks too highly of herself. im glad her older brother put her in her place during the car ride. she needs to be picked on too sometimes, shes too spoiled.What about you guys? Who do you like/not like and why?
I remember the first time he met Sam and Patrick at the football game and they were asking him all those questions, he said he was fifteen. I kind of feel sorry for M.E. Charlie really should have been honest with her. My favorite character would have to be Charlie because out of everyone in the book, I'm mostly like him. I also kind of envy him for being so innocent.
I don't like Mary-Elizabeth. She's so self centered. I like Sam much better. She accepts Charlie for who he is.I get the feeling that Bill is trying to teach Charlie a coming of age lesson. Why?
Well, I guess Bill sees Charlie as someone who hasn't grown up yet. Like you've said before Chloe, Charlie is "simplistic and innocent." I think Bill is trying to help Charlie grow up, kind of like that part in The Catcher in the Rye, where Mr. Antolini tries to help Holden mature and grow up. I mean, Perks of Being a Wallflower was inspired by Cather in the Rye.
But would Charlie want to grow up. Personally, I wouldn't. Life isn't fun anymore when you're an adult. I'm in no hurry to grow up. I'm going to enjoy my high school days so that by the time I'm 35 and everything I do is for my job, I can look back and remember the innocent times.
I wouldn't want to grow up either. A while back, when I was still 3-4, I gave myself an ultimatum to not grow up and to stay a kid at heart.
I agree with david. That Bill is trying to make Charlie grow up. Well trying to help him grow up. The Perks of Being a Wallflower was also inspired by A Seperate Peace which is also a coming of age novel we read.
I just finished reading the entire book and i thought it had a great ending. Towards the end in the last couple letters i was really worried about Charlie and how he would react to everyone leaving and if it would make him more depressed and everything. He kept saying school was lonely and how he doesn't really have anyone to talk to because Patrick is going to be gone for a few days driving Sam to school and he can't really talk to anyone else besides is Aunt Helen but she's dead and all that. But he seems like he'll be okay and it's not like Sam and Patrick are gone forever.I really liked the quote on page 145 "because things change. And friends leave. And life doesn't stop for anybody." because i think it sort of sumed up what we are supose to get out of this book.what did everyone else think?
I have finished the end of the book, too. I thought it was a great book. I agree with Jess F. when she said that quote practically sumed the whole book up and what the message of the book was. It is a good quote because that is how life really is. There is not one person who the world changes for. Did you guys think that the book ended the way you thought it would have ended? If not what was your prediction of how the book was going to end?
I really don't see the journey part of the book. Help?About the quote, I find it kind of depressing. There are many times when I wish that the moment would last forever. Just imagine Charlie's loss. If I was him, I would want to stop time to when Michael and Helen were still alive.I see no plot. Usually I don't like plotless books because I think there would be no point to the book. But because of Charlie's voice, I find the book interesting.
I cried at the end. It was sad Chloe. Go ahead and laugh. I was right about the Aunt Helen thing. She did have some intimate relations with Charlie. She molested him.
What are you talking about? No she didn't!What do you think about Patrick. I think he was taking out his fustration on Charlie. Then when he realized Brad is happy without him, he got better. I'm confused.
Well, I think Patrick's weird. On page 202, "[Sam] took my hand and slid it under her pants. And I touched her...everything made sense. Until she moved her hand under my pants, and she touched me." After this, Charlie freaks out and goes to sleep on the couch. While he's dreaming on page 204, he has a dream where "[Aunt Helen] was doing what Sam was doing."
I looked and noticed that he said his brother and sister were there too. Would she have really done that with witnesses?I feel a sense of enlightenment from Charlie near the end, but I don't know why. But his voice never changed. Weird.
Maybe she would do it with witnesses. Maybe that's why his sister always calls him a pervert. Maybe the reason why he never gets disturbed when he sees his sister having sex or seeing the girl get raped in his bedroom was because he had already experienced that, and had suppressed it. This could be an explanation for why Charlie is so messed up. That's what I think.
And here I thought he was just weird. I dunno. I like my explanation better. Well, why did he sink into depression when he heard she died. You can't ignore the fact that she loves him; she bought him two gifts instead of one. I would think that a kid that goes through that kind of traumatic experience would be more bitter or knowledgable. Most would have adult minds by the time they reach high school.
Well, you have to remember that he was only a kid when this was happening and he couldn't have known what was happening. But, now he's more knowledgeable. And you're right, she did love him. She treated him better than anyone in his family did. He was ignorant towards what she was doing, but out of all the members in his family, she treated him the best. But, if my aunt did something like that to me, i wouldn't know what was happening, but if I learn about sex later on and recall that moment, I think I would freak out.
Well now that Charlie's older and supposedly wiser, you would think that he would recognize the encounter as it is. But he never hates Aunt Helen. Plus, remember that young Charlie felt like throwing up when he was in the coat room with that couple. That means he recognizes it and is disgusted by it. (This was before Helen died because he didn't go into his slump yet)
I never sad he hated Aunt Helen. And the the guy was forcing the girl to have sex with him. He could see that and the tears coming down her face. Knowing Charlie, he's not the type to force anyone to do anything and seeing this could have made him feel disgusted that people could do something so ghastly.
woah! david your so right. i completely didn't even notice that part. Thats so weird though because Aunt Helen is someone he admired and loved and everything. He loved her more then anyone. And she was also molested, so why would she want to put her nephews and neice in the same situation?wow poor charlie is more messed up then i thought.
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